There are big wishes for Signal to adopt the perfectly working Flatpak.
This will make Signal show up in the verified subsection of Flathub, it will improve trust, allow a central place for bug reports and support and ease maintenance.
Flatpak works on pretty much all Distros, including the ones covered by their current “Linux = Ubuntu” .deb repo.
To make a good decision, we need to have some statistics about who uses which package.
I just use discord or WhatsApp on chromium in my Linux install xd
I generally use the latest available.
I tend not to use flatpack. I lost a few nights trying to get OBS plugins to work in flat pack. It would probably be fine for something as simple and straightforward as signal. But it’s more or less nothing but disadvantage to end users. That said I’m sure it’s a great savings for you guys.
It sucks that they don’t allow a survey without logging in first. Had to create an account extra for taking part…
The worst part about signing up somewhere is the amount of email spam that will land in you inbox. I don’t know about their specific configuration, but by default Discourse (the forum software they use) sends weekly “digest emails” if you haven’t visited the site for a week. So make sure to turn them off.
Use SimpleLogin and Bitwarden for everything. I never use the same email or password anywhere and can turn off receiving emails from the source for each account.
Its not a Signal survey, this is by a random user.
You can register anonymously.
The way you posted this made it seem it was an official signal survey
It is used as such, and Signal wont start one so well…
How do you know it’s used as an official one would be?
It isnt, thats why I spreaded this link into multiple communities
I prefer the deb that works. I get a signal.update almost every other day. I don’t remember to update my flatpaks anywhere near that often. I also appreciate that it doesn’t force me to include dependencies that are already met.
You can update flatpaks automatically using systemd. Automatic updates are a thing and should be everywhere.
https://discuss.kde.org/t/improving-metered-network-detection-and-usage/9287
Automatic updates are a thing and should be everywhere.
Absolutely not…most especially prior to production deployment. How else would someone see the change logs before hand or see/test if it would hurt their environment?
I have no idea what a production environment is for you. If it is some kind of sealed off stuff yeah maybe, but otherwise I hope you use a Distro that handles updates the way you need it.
Not updating because things will break is a sign of a bad distro.
Production environment is typically in the corporate world, not usually a homelab. Service providers often have a SLA uptime guarantee of 99%. They don’t often push patches as soon as available due to the varied nature of corporate environment. They don’t have one or two PCs to worry about: they can have tens of thousands. Downtime equates to money lost. So patches get tested before being deployed. Depending on the patch, that can be 48 hours to a week or two. Major OS upgrades can be months-long test, but the company usually does that and follows it while it’s still in beta.
Updates are pointed to a server the company controls, not the Internet. Updates get tested on test servers and test machines that replicate those in production. It typically gets monitored for 48 hours to measure glitches and performance. Once satisfied, the company controlled update server pushes into production machines.
How about putting it on F-droid? That won’t happen as they ship to much proprietary software.
Signal wants to provide updates themselfs to make sure they are fast in case of big security bug. F-Droid can lag behind to provide new version of app.
But they should at least provide F-Droid repo.
F-droid is only a few days behind at most. They are arguing against F-droid with evidence that’s out of date. I think it has more to do with laziness than anything.
The good news is that Molly exists.
Laziness is a very negative way of putting it. Another would be prioritisation - with limited budget, what is the best way to get as many people as possible to have their communications encrypted?
with limited budget, what is the best way to get as many people as possible to have their communications encrypted?
They could dump their existing code that let users SMS non-Signal users and upgrade it automatically to E2EE if the other number has Signal. Oh wait, that would worth adoption, nevermind.
Right, stickers and gifs are more important than security and privacy
Its so strange that you need to use Twinhelix’ random project or Molly, as Signal doesnt care
I quit using signal after they stopped supporting text messaging on Android. I had my whole family using it and that just evaporated overnight 😭
So your family used SMS? Sms is horrible, you should just not use it.
If signal supported encrypted SMS that would be useful. DekuSMS is the only alternative here, as Silence is abandoned.
But it makes sense that they dont want to pretend SMS was a good standard.
Meanwhile, they use a phone number for anything, ironic
They went from doing some communication secure with signal, to doing no secure communication, because of a rug pull of a genuinely convenient feature. The problem with communication apps is that it is almost impossible to convince anyone to use anything they haven’t heard about, if it is not very convenient. They’re not going to use a separate app just for communicating with a single person/a few people.
Looks like RCS might be viable in the future when it works on both iphones and androids though. I just hope that it doesn’t all go through googles servers.
RCS is controlled by a few companies and also requires a specific app. Nearly all messengers work on iOS too (apart based Briar)
RCS is still not available for Android. For now proprietary Google Messages is required to connect Google proxied RCS servers.
And I would be suprisied if this won’t stay that way.
You do realise that mobile data is non-existent or limited in some counties right? Even here in New Zealand mobile data is still limited or expensive and the main communication, especially between people who don’t know each other, is SMS. Some encryption is still better than nothing.
Crazy. But Signal never encrypted SMS.
And even if they did, this would be worse than signal protocol and really confusing, because SMS only worked between signal and an sms app, encrypted sms would only work between signal and signal too.
So you would have the same encryption over 2 protocols and people may just stay with sms all the time which is baaad.
So seperate apps, I dont get peoples problems.
I recommend DekuSMS for encrypted SMS.
That’s why Silence was forked from Signal.
You don’t get people’s problems because I’m going to hazard a guess that it’s not a problem for you and therefore you don’t actually have any lived experience with the issue. Or not currently anyway. But given you don’t seem to be too interested in peoples actual experiences and seem more interested in talking over people and insisting that your eristic arguments are the only right answer, I’m going to leave this conversation here and continue to have a hard time converting family and friends to Signal because they still use SMS and Signal doesn’t give a shit about people in countries where SMS dominates.
My parents are approaching 60. I told them that the signal text message app would work a lot like iMessage if we both used it. And it did. It was great. For the other people that used signal, the experience was generally better. For other people that didn’t, SMS was fine because that’s how I was going to talk to them anyway.
The thing is, My parents are not going to go to more than one app to communicate with other people. Since it no longer sends and receives text messages, it doesn’t work with 99% of the other people in their lives.
They own and run a pretty large business. There’s no way that they’re staying on more than one messaging platform. You can talk all day about what they “should” do, but at the end of the day just getting them to switch to another app was a huge lift for me. Not only did they switch back to regular SMS, I burned a lot of credibility with them on tech related stuff through no fault of my own.
Repeat this story for the 90 or so people I had converted. There was no critical mass, so adoption evaporated overnight because my social graph is not enough to provide any sort of critical mass and adoption.
That sucks I am very sorry to hear that.
The thing is just that nobody should use SMS really. If they have a business they may have experience with it and whatever but really, dont use SMS at all…
Then it is just a single messaging app.
It makes no sense to include unencrypted SMS in an encrypted messaging app over secure protocols. Like, SMS are all scanned, surveilled and can easily be manipulated.
I think they just gave very valid reasons to include sms in signal, adoption. It took me years to get my contacts on signal and I was finally at the point that >80% of my messages were encrypted, that dropped to <10% the day sms was dropped. If I refused to use sms I would effectively be cutting contact with my family.
SMS is also the common standard for talking to people.
For the vast, vast majority of people, the technical security of, ‘hey, you want to catch a movie next saturday’, is far less important then the message actually getting through.
Qute simply, it is far more important for a communication method to be easy and universal then to be secure against attacks the vast majority of people do not think they will ever encounter. When most people want to tell their neighbor two houses down that the dog has gotten out again being able use the app they already use to communicate is far more important to them then then a bunch of technical jargon about end to end encryption.
Thats email too, which is less bad
Why is email less bad than SMS? It’s about as (in)secure.
Email also fulfills a different role, as it is for longer, more formal, and less time sensitive messages. Nevertheless, more modern and technical encrypted email clients go out of their way to still work with unencrypted messages insteand of being deliberately incompatible as Signal is.
Email uses modern TLS, SMS uses some ancient encryption from the 90s or so, that just doesnt work.
If you trust the servers email is fine.
You can use Deltachat to chat over email. The protocol is universal its just how you use it.
Trust me a signal/xmpp/matrix message could look like an email too.
Email + Encryption is poorly optional yes. But you are asking for an internet chat service to support a different, ancient, insecure and unprivate protocol that has nothing to do with it.
Deku SMS supports encrypted and unencrypted SMS, this makes sense.
I hate that the developers of secure messaging apps in particular are deaf to this. It’s so easy to just add SMS as a fallback and yet they refuse to.
In the US on Android, unencrypted SMS messaging comes default. How do you propose getting a technologically illiterate boomer to not use SMS?
Same. I just didn’t have any use for signal after SMS removal. Yes I know SMS is insecure but I was stuck. Either you use a separate secure app and magically convince everyone else to use it whilst falling back onto a separate SMS app anyway (for those who don’t use the encrypted app). Or alternatively you just have to use a mainstream app like Google Messenger with SMS plus RCS.
At least when signal supported it I could migrate family to signal and then our communication would be encrypted and they could still message everyone else over SMS. It meant a large portion of my messages were encrypted. After SMS removal everyone I had on signal just quit so there was no one to communicate with. Trying to get people to use multiple apps was like herding cats.
I don’t care about the packaging format so much as about either having a Qt or GTK version or even just being able to open it in my browser.
Well, the .deb only works on Ubuntu and derivates so that doesnt really matter
What do you mean?
I didnt get your scentence. Yes I agree having a native Qt/Slint version would be cool. But the code still needs to be packaged for distros and Electron is horrible but solves like everything for them.
There is Flare. I haven’t used it myself because it’s not official and I don’t know what it will do to e.g. my backups, but just sharing in case you’re interested.
I’m thinking about abandoning Signal given the fact that they use AWS servers, still insist on requiring a phone number to use the APP and haven’t yet implemented nicknames like Telegram
If you want absolute control over your communications, the only way is to self-host an XMPP server
Why not matrix?
Matrix, the protocol, is quite nice.
Element, the Matrix reference client, is too complicated IMO. If everyone were to only use FluffyChat, it would be great but then FluffyChat afaik doesn’t implement every protocol feature and and you could end up in compatibility issues with Element users.
Purely as a client I find Telegram the most convenient. I think more should copy their homework from there, heck perhaps post the client to Matrix.
Both are great for chat! End of debate.
Yeah Signal sucks a lot. It is poorly very convenient to use.
XMPP had too little funding. But it could totally replace Signal, no question.
SimpleX is also cool and truly privacy first
Your data is always encrypted before it reaches the AWS servers though, so it’s not like Amazon has access to them. The phone number/nicknames is still in progress, but it’s hard to do that securely, and given that their user base is really big now, they also need to make sure it works well for everybody.
The concerns about AWS servers are around metadata. If metadata were not a concern, why not just use Whatsapp? They use the Signal protocol so messages are end-to-end encrypted by default, and most people already have it or are willing to download it as compared to Signal.
Signal also encrypts your metadata. (And notably, WhatsApp does not.)
That seems like the wrong place to link to. Shouldn’t you be linking to Sealed Sender?
Native desktop version.
What does that mean?
First being able to use the service first-class on the desktop without registering with phone app first. Second is using native desktop technologies for the app, as Signal currently uses Electron so it is basically a website running in separate Chromium web browser without tabs.
Agreed
That’s a very gross oversimplification of what Electron is.
The post here is a link to an online survey being done by the Signal Community. Users need to follow the link to answer the survey if they wish (but it means creating yet another new account which I’m getting pretty tired of as I’m now passing over 900 different logins all with unique passwords etc ;-)
Understandable, if you dont care just use a temporary email like altadress
The heck are you all talking about? The post says Linux and Flatpack, while everyone somehow is discussing why signal is not on f-driod.
How the heck is this related?
Hahaha, any comment here makes no sense. This is just to help that guy have an actually somewhat useful survey, because Signal devs have very strange priorities
Luckily for me, I’m on an Ubuntu derivative. So
apt upgradejust does it. Sorry, OP, works for me in my preferred way, I don’t need any flatpacks. Let’s hope once they do one they keep building .debs nonetheless.Flatpaks work just as well. It is an electron app, that causes all the bloat. Signal is modern and everything apart drag&drop and maybe a tray icon (havent tried that) works.
Not being able to run Signal on my Android tablet feels really inconvenient. That would be no. 1 on my wish list
Try Molly on both devices but yeah Signal should fix this.
That’s the biggest pain point with Signal and WhatsApp in my opinion. Telegram does it, but then of course it’s much easier for them to support. Sharing content from my tablet is such a hassle.
I use warpinator to share between my phone, laptop and desktop at home. It uses the local network.
But yea, I use signal to share often, when I am out.
USERNAMES
I’d love this but also temp sub users, I have it linked to my phone but I’d like to keep my real username and phone number private if using the app outside of my circle.
This is just a random user doing a very unrepresentative poll back in June last year - I don’t think it’ll influence Flatpak adoption in any way.
