China Installed More Solar Panels Last Year Than the U.S. Has in Total::China installed more new solar capacity last year than the total amount ever installed in any other country.
Those are installed, but are they connected to the grid?
would it make any sense to spend precious time and resources to produce millions of solar panels to then just not bother to plug them in?
Totally, you can get all the money from the government for it so you make the profit. Just look at the rent a bike industry in China or the EV industry
doesnt matter if its the government making that investment or private interests.
why invest and waste time and resources to make and install solar panels and not bothering to plug them in? thats a really bad take.
I just showed you that there are doin this in the other two industries, it’s not such a big leap to suspect that they are doing it in a third industry too.
their EVs and ebikes are booming worldwide dude. BYD is quite huge now.
it still doesnt make sense to pay for solar panels and not install them.
Ok, I give up explaining what I mean, it doesn’t matter.
Well, someone has to make use of renewable energy I guess lol
China doesn’t have oil and they want to be energy independent. Because of this they heavily invest in renewables.
It’s not like they are doing it to save the planet, but it does save the planet.
China’s govt has been trying to make their country as self sustaining as possible, this is part of that initiative. No one can tell you shit if you’re don’t rely on anyone for external things.
Ya, it makes sense considering China imports 2/3 of their oil. Solar and EVs make a lot of sense when you don’t have much in the way of fossil fuels. Not even considering the environmental benefits
Building giant empty cities in the middle of nowhere doesn’t help the housing crisis in China.
Building giant solar and wind farms in the middle of nowhere does help with the pollution crisis.
Glad that they finally found something that uses dumping money in the middle of nowhere that can actually improve peoples lives instead of just prop up an economic bubble.
And opened more coal plants too lol, don’t be quick in praising the CCP, there’s always something shady in the background…
China’s CO2 output is expected to fall in the coming year, and for structural reasons, stay that way for years to come.
China is still developing and allowing European countries and the US to pollute unchecked but clutch your pearls when China and other countries do the same is ideological.
This article is evidence that China is putting effort forward on renewables. Meanwhile, Germany is opening coal plants and the US can’t get a handle on anything at all.
It’s not really shady now is it? There is no way solar can provide enough power for the entire country of china.
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China is doing something good: here’s why it’s bad.
And systematically genociding their minorities too. Let’s never forget that.
I still can’t wrap my head around the case for genocide in China. Political and religious oppression is evident, but aside from grainy photos of some prisoners, but I haven’t seen evidence of genocide. People are saying it though so… I guess it could be true?
tankie army has been activated
Tankie army got nuked into oblivion… Thank goodness.
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Go back to nazbear, revisionist tankie. There is proof available with a simple Google search.
And I can fault China for their actions just like I can blame the US for sponsoring the massacre in Gaza, which I vehemently reject. So your whack theory falls flat.
Most people except China know the truth about what happened in Xinjiang.
This is not just a theory. There are evidences. Until you relay CCP propaganda.
are there?
Yes, tankie. A simple Google Search will answer your dishonest question.
tell me fascist, where it is.
all i see is articles from corporate us/uk media making extraordinary claims without extraordinary proof.
Tell you what. I’ll deny there is any genocide in Gaza on the exact same basis that you’re denying it for the Uyghurs. Does that work for you? If it really has to be “extraordinary”, then it has to be applied equally.
Or is this not something like, say, UFOs or homeopathy where we actually need extraordinary evidence?
they are from .ML, a major tankie instance, with major love for Pooty/Russia and Pooh Bear/China and irrational hatred for anything Not Russia/China. Soooo… Yeah.
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Go back to nazbear, revisionist tankie. There is proof available with a simple Google search.
And I can fault China for their actions just like I can blame the US for sponsoring the massacre in Gaza, which I vehemently reject. So your whack theory falls flat.
Most people except China know the truth about what happened in Xinjiang.
Bullshit, I’ve already seen pictures and videos of it, a few years ago. Lots of us have too.
preceding the points you mentioned, i stopped believing it when the league of arab nations went to investigate and found nothing.
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Oh my God, that’s awful!
I hope the US responds by installing more solar panels this year than China ever has!
Let’s install solar panels on the moon! That’ll fucking show them. Beam the energy back to earth with giant fucking microwave dishes. Ohhh that would really piss off them damn reds
Until it’s a new moon…
Actually that raises an interesting point…the best time for solar, on earth, is when the panels are most directly hit.
So since the moon is tidally locked to the earth, that means that there would be better ideal tilts at each longitude, so that whenever the sun is out, they are tilted to receive as much light as possible. But that also means that the panels only even receive light for half of the lunar cycle, at most.
Right? Am I overthinking this?
There are craters towards the poles that receive sunlight all the time. But you’d still have to build extra panels for the lunar cycle. Equatorial stations might be better, and if you built 3, 2 would be in direct sunlight almost all the time.
Which is fine! Gives you time to do maintenance without any additional losses.
Not really…you don’t want to be out doing maintenance at lunar night. We’d have to have some serious improvement in EVA suits, mechsuits, or robots.
There’s a reason every Apollo mission landed at lunar dawn.
We can do it, not because it’s easy, but because it is hard.
Wait what? That’s an awful reason to do something.
Doing the hard thing is a learning experience.
Good. I assume it helps that most of the world’s solar panel manufacturing is based in China.
The rest of the world should be ramping up production, not relying on China for cheap labour.
I keep seeing more and more about the solar production in Georgia, USA ramping up!
It great to see the world really going into green industrialzation.
Cool part is we’ve got a functional safety system like OSHA so everyone goes home with all their fingers and toes, and the EPA keeps the nearby creeks from getting contaminated.
Can’t say the same for other countries, troubled and fucked up as our country is.
Other countries are Asiatic hordes, nothing but lawlessness and savagery. Only America make clean safe technology! 😜
You know how when you’re the first to do something, you’re also the first to make mistakes? Look at the Hanford site, for example. First place to ever process uranium and plutonium.
Imagine knowing the results of being careless, and being careless anyway, after the fact. 😂 What’s wrong with you??
To be clear: I believe most people anywhere want to be safe, and do a good job. Their administrators and governmental reps are the pieces of dogshit, ccp included, that ignore safety and individuality. The US has serious problems too, but again, we have safety organizations with teeth here.
its obviously good for the rest of the world to industrialize, but they would just be moving carbon emissions from china to themselves.
they themselves would need to transition to renewables if we want this move to be good for the climate.
Think about Uyghurs.
well arab countries have visited them and found no problem, and mass refugee movements arent happening. i think they should be fine.
what did i say that was remotely related to them on my post?
I trust the Arab countrys as far as I could throw them. Get the Irish in there and I may take such claims seriously.
the arabs are complicit with their own secret genocide then? what do the irish have to do with an arab genocide? 🤣
What do Arabs have to do a Turkic genocide? You are conflating Muslim and Arab.
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The irony of your propaganda account posting about propaganda is full flavored.
That would be the point of making panels and wind turbines themselves.
Ideally you’d want enough manufacturing capacity to power your whole country with renewables, in the time it takes for the first bits to start needing replacements.
Currently seeing the US climate narrative shift from “why should we stop burning fossils and get our shit together when China won’t? >:(” to “why should we stop burning fossils and get our shit together when Senegal won’t? >:(” Can’t wait for 20 years from now when we’re balls deep in climate disasters, Senegal gets its shit together, and the US narrative moves to
hondurasEl SalvadorUgandacomparing itself to the Philippines.Holy crap you guys, it turns out that the narrative that the developing world is going to burn an ass-ton of fossil fuels is a lot weaker than I thought. It looks like there’s a fuckton of equatorial and global south countries with renewables/hydro power, Honduras is even adding Geothermal. God damn it, USA, get off your ass and fix your shit already.
We’ve moved from 17% to 40% of total energy production coming from renewables since 2020. Thanks to Biden policies. Even though according to reddit he’s an incontinent dementia patient.
The US DOE puts the US at 20% renewable energy.
Pretty easy to argue nuclear is renewable and is carbon neutral. Ergo, 40%.
I mean… It can all be true, right?
Listen to Biden’s interview on Conan O’Brien’s podcast then come back here and tell me he’s demented. I’ll wait.
I also had sweet dreams last night
Source? I haven’t seen final numbers for 2023 from EIA yet, but 2022 was like 22%. The growth is accelerating as economics change, and in large part the IRA (thanks Biden), but it’s not 40%. I’m speaking of electricity production, but I can’t think of a reasonable metric that’s anywhere near 40% nationally. Let’s try to stick to reality here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United_States
You said renewables are 40%, which is wrong. Then you sourced articles showing that carbon free sources are 40%, which includes nuclear. Nobody calls nuclear “renewable”, so I suggest getting your language straight so as not to confuse.
to be fair nuclear nuclear is much much better than keeping up with all that fossil fuel burning.
in fact id rather see (properly maintained!!!) nuclear than waiting until actual renewables can cover all of the world’s demand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_proposed_as_renewable_energy
You are a total douche, btw.
We’ve moved from 17% to 40% of total energy production coming from renewables since 2020
This what you said. You’re comparing a 2020 number without nuclear to a 2022 number with nuclear. That’s dumb and misleading. That doesn’t make me a douche, it makes you wrong and petty. Grow up and just try to get your numbers and facts straight.
Same with EVs. After BYD became the largest EV manufacturer, suddenly EV is not cool anymore. Maybe if car manufacturers focus on making EV affordable instead of cramming more and more luxury features, maybe EV sales in US won’t dwindle.
The anti-EV sentiment has been building much longer than BYD becoming the big boy on the block. About 8 months ago my state passed the equivalent of about a $100 per gallon tax on EV charging.
That sounds bad, but how would they know you are using electricity to charge your EV?
It’s a DC charger tax.
Mine requires you to pay an extra like thousand dollars when buying your plates as an EV tax, they try to justify by saying they’re missing out on your fuel taxes for the next decade so they want to collect it up front.
Then they go and spend it on hunting down women getting abortions and black kids existing…
Renewables may be more plausible for some developing countries because of lack of competency or administrative consistency (sometimes to the degree of stealing everything which isn’t nailed to the floor) for centralized grid with a few big producers, and weak infrastructure in general.
But of course it would be good if some things weren’t stagnating in countries without such factors.
It’s more because developing countries don’t attract the interest of corporations so much that they won’t devote much energy to sabotage the installation of renewable energy.
It’s also easier to justify adopting newer tech in places that are less developed. If you made a billion dollar investment and are still paying for it, it’s harder to scrap it and pivot.
China needs a fuckload of power, they are building more of everything including coal. The only reason they aren’t building more coal is people like seeing out their windows.
The US is actually winding down coal use. China is still expanding, this is a problem. The fact China also added a ton of solar panels is a nice distraction.
I seem to have been working on old info, as China has decommissioned 70 GW of coal plants, but it looks like they also just approved a whole lot more of them.
In the third quarter of this year, however, China permitted more new coal plants than in all of 2021, according to Greenpeace, even as most countries have stopped building new coal-fired power and are phasing out plants.
Well, shit.
Anyway, I’m glad for the solar and nuclear capacity (LOTS of it!) that China’s been building. I’m glad to hear that we are spinning down coal capacity, but I’d be interested to learn what we’re replacing it with. It seems like natural gas is all the rage these days, and that still produces GHG emissions.
the coal is approved because on how power plants function. dirty energy is usually used to level out power spikes in demand, but not as a main source after you have a remeweable source. its a tually very hard to go 100% renewables.
It’s less about balance and more about raw needs. Providing power to a billion people is hard and they are building everything to meet the growing demand.
Balance is what determines the supply mix else everyone would just run nukes. Previous commenter is right about why fossil fuels are still used, we don’t have tech to replace their capabilities, which are necessary for reliability of the transmission grid. Energy storage is an area of huge investment right now because of this, with batteries and flywheel storage pilot projects to try and mature this technology. SMRs are another area of research. Programs like demand response to incentivize heavy consumers to change their usage patterns.
Without the ramp rate of fossils to respond quickly to grid conditions, there would be constant frequency drops and spikes across the transmission grid. Turbines would become out of sync from the frequency on the lines and things would start tripping and we would have a blackout. This is even more complex with unpredictable renewal integration where fossil becomes even more critical for its capabilities, while slightly less for its capacity.
I thought China’s population has stopped growing and is actually on a track to start shrinking rapidly?
But at the same time, quality of life is rapidly improving which means energy usage per capita will eventually ramp up to similar level with average western citizen’s energy usage.
That depends on whether it’ll keep its position as world’s cheap factory. Quality of life improving tends to affect that too. What energy China now consumes for production may not be required in 20 years.
I’m not so sure about that. China is about to ramp up solar even more. They build a lot of solar and battery-related factories and secured mining rights for solar and battery raw elements in Asia and Africa in the past few years, sometimes to the point of fighting with the displaced locals (China tend to bring their own workers from mainland instead of employing local workers).
This was done with the express purpose of having the title of it. Its a vanity project that wont last 10 years.
renewables are not vanity regardless of country
China regularly does vanity projects to get positive headlines. Mass tree planting has been a popular one, the trees are generally all dead in a year or two, but they got the pro environment headline.
yes, most replanted trees die regardless. forest coverage is up and thats what matters.
Cool.
And how many of them function properly?
Hahahhaa the correct comment! Lol
Probably every single one of them, but I’m guessing you just feel insecure about your country?
Yea… Hahaha they are chineese panels lol
Many of the panels in the US are manufactured in China.
I was more referencing the fact that there’s a significant problem in china with the misappropriation of funds and replacing of real components and equipment with fake or non-functioning components and equipment.
US has regulatory bodies that (sometimes) work on their own, China has regulatory bodies that only work when the state notices something is wrong, and by that time it’s too late and several billion yuan (RMB) deep.
It’s not as though there’s an intended malevolence to the people by the CCP, it’s just that their organization structure and manner doesn’t allow for a lot of autonomy and requires direct orders to go into action.
I doubt it, I’ve no interest in discussing the matter with someone who clearly doesn’t keep up to date on architectural issues within the mainland.
傻瓜
The rise of China is democratizing access to technology. My home government, supposedly a longtime partner of the US, has struggled for years to get any tech transfer deal with the US, too many hoops to jump through. But were able to get many tech transfers from China recently. It was a major win and that technology includes solar panel manufacturing.
Democracy and technology? You’re thinking of Taiwan.
Which is a part of China according to even the US
Except in any defacto way, mainland has 0 control on the rule of law in Taiwan. They have their own taxes, military, laws, elections, etc, and again pay no taxes, follow no laws, they don’t partipate in mainlands gov, and don’t serve in their military.
There is even some international recognition, but mainland does it’s best to hinder their diplomatic missions.
ربي يعطيك على قد نيتك
Taiwan is an independent and democratic country, unlike the totalitarian and pseudo-communist state that is China.
Too many hoops, like stop funding the terrorist groups that attacked The US on 9/11? Yeah, I can see how MBS might have some trust issues coming from The US.
Funny you accuse the Saudi government of what was an inside-job. The Saudi government exiled Bin Laden in the 1990s, revoking his citizenship, while the US was still working with him. Either way we don’t need it from you. China is making you irrelevant. You can’t withhold technology to bully the rest of the world. You can go pound sand.
Also funny coming from a nation where a genocidal maniac is the lesser evil. You keep your electorism, and I am keeping our free healthcare, free universities and high speed rail.
FYI, the US is guilty of multiple war crimes in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere. They are guilty right now of war crimes in Palestine. It is really tiring how you pretend to be the good guys. You are Homelander not Superman.
Shit were guilty of war crimes inside the US. Tell me something I don’t know.
Thing is our government occasionally fucks up and does some good shit. MBS, and Ji Jinpooh don’t give two fucks about their own people or any others.
MBS is still funding terrorist groups 24 years later, and murdering journalists.
The US Government may be a soulless corporate structure bent on enriching itself. MBS is a parochial dictator that is just pissed off we don’t need his dino juice anymore.
Bro… the current leadership of China committed genocide on their own soil and have been attempting to expand their borders for decades.
China is not a good partner for playing the lesser of 2 evils game. You’d be at it all day with the whataboutism.
Bro the US wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for genocide and slavery. The US right now occupies oil fields in Iraq and Syria and is stealing the oil. The US right now is sending weapons to Israel to massacre Palestinians. No one cares about your virtue signaling.
China is a much lesser evil. They don’t try to push us to normalize with genocidal maniacs (Zionist usurpers) as a precondition for even the most basic of technologies.
If you think China is so bad just compare the policing of Hong Kong protests with the policing of George Floyd protests. The emperor has no clothes.
FYI: the US is also expanding https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-22/us-claims-huge-chunk-of-seabed-amid-strategic-push-for-resources and it is also helping Israel annex Syrian and Palestinian lands.
Yeah, we know. But again… the whataboutism. Countries exist because of war and oppression. It’s time to move past that as an excuse.
This is a joke, though, as you are just projecting and doing what you’ve accused me of. Just don’t bother. Rounding up and sterilizing your citizens. And China famously gunned protesters down in the streets. So I don’t want to hear about how we handle protesters compared to China.
What about USA this, what about USA that. What about the assassination of Kashoggi? What about the killings of innocents for protesting in the Arab states?
If you are bringing up journalists then you should care about Palestinian journalists being slaughtered by US weapons
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-war-in-gaza-has-been-deadly-for-journalists
still better than the us
Grow up. Your bias is shining too strongly.
BuT At wHaT CoSt
Turns out at the same cost as always… since they’re also still firing new coal plants.
In the third quarter of this year [2023], however, China permitted more new coal plants than in all of 2021, according to Greenpeace, even as most countries have stopped building new coal-fired power and are phasing out plants.
The enslavement of the Uighur people? I work for an American renewable energy company and a lot of contracts were disrupted by the US’ Forced Labor Prevention Act. I suspect that the sudden jump in domestic Chinese installation is partially caused by Chinese exports being restricted by western nations.
china also has more population than any other country
There may be differing opinions on government and ethics, but one thing China does well is push their workforce towards common goals like this.
US total wealth: 139+ trillion (in USD)
China total wealth: 84+ trillion (in USD)
It’s not a function of population. It’s a function of wealth and the will to use that wealth to invest in clean energy. The US has entrenched interests in keeping the oil flowing. China isn’t investing in clean energy for altruism, they do it because they don’t have rich reserves of oil, but at least they’re doing the right thing, even if it’s not necessarily for the right reasons.
Agreed that wealth also is a relevant parameter. But it is also a function of the population because what fraction of your population’s power consumption is coming from a renewable source is a more interesting metric than your raw renewable power production.
global production is all outsourced to india and mainly china.
their carbon emissions correspond not only to their own population, but to produce goods for most of the world.
yes and hence why it is currently only reasonable to compare things like total renewable energy production vs total household energy requirements of a country. production energy is too global to tackle with this approach. and so why I just casually mentioned population is an important factor in how much renewable energy you should be producing.
But they still have their crazy mines that polute right? No number of solar pannel will change anything if you don’t stop what you are doing that polutes.
Same for all countries btw…China is installing more energy production than any other country. Wind, solar, coal and nuclear. They are installing everything.
Can’t wage war if you depend on oil ships
China pollutes so much because the biggest consumer economy in the world deindustrialized and outsourced manufacturing to them.
China pollutes so much because George HW Bush and Bill Clinton pushed American jobs top China so CEOs could mask bank on huge profits on cheap labor, unsafe work places, and near zero environmental regulation that was impossible in the United States. We built China by disregarding worker rights and the environment and we are paying for it dearly.
Why are we even bothering blaming politicians? Companies moved production over to cut costs and Americans wanted cheap shit. We could have all just bought made in America in the 80s if we cared, that would have been the time to make a stand while the transition was still happening.
It is government’s job to make sure international trade is done according to some basic rules, including labor and environment. Business’ only metric is profits.
You mean the boomers consumers are to blame?
You’ve never bought anything with “made in china” on the label?
So did the US Presidents force China to not implement any environmental safeguards for their manufacturing? I don’t think so.
Sure the corporations send the orders to China, and they pay for them, putting the money into China’s economy. But China as a sovereign nation is still responsible for the pollution that it creates. They should implement strong environmental protection regulations to fix that.
I would prefer if American corporations sent their manufacturing orders to American factories, but I have no control over that or China’s environmental regulations. They should both do better.
I’d say the 70s was the pivotal decade there with the oil crisis, the party was effectively over for the Democratic FDR post-war reality, and the economic anxieties resulting from deindustrialization began to have impacts in the rust belt. Mao’s death effectively ended China’s Cultural Revolution, and Deng implemented economic reforms to open the country to capitalism, with a huge industrial push and creation of economic zones. While labor power in the US had achieved a great deal in to the 60s, the Taft-Hartley Act from back in '47 kneecapped the ability for labor to fight the death of the US industrial manufacturing core. Because of course capital is gonna capital, and if they can’t exploit workers as well domestically they can in some other country. Especially when they use their hegemonic influence to keep other countries open to private capitalist exploitation, like arming fascist coups in even moderately socialist countries in the global south. The global fight against communism is a backdrop to all this.
And here we are today as these routes of externalizing the exploitation necessary to maintain this standard of living and consumer economy dry up, and this economic reality turns inward.
