Hello fellows,
I’m currently looking in 13-14" laptops with no immediate needs for one but just because it’s exciting. I love my Dell XPS but I feel I should support companies with which I share more common views. I could make the effort to go a with a less attractive look (especially for bezels) but I don’t want to go wrong with hardware so what are your thoughts on Framework, Starlab, Purism, and System76? I’ll be running Arch and I tend to have a preference for Framework for now.
Do you have feedback (positive and negative) to share on any of these companies?
Thanks for the knowledge you’ll bring me. That’ll be extremely useful when time comes to go with a new machine.
Anyone have some experience with StarLabs?
Ordered a StarFighter like more than half a year ago and am losing confidence in the company…
Can you expand on that?
Well, the Laptop is still not released. Not sure what I can say more about it :-\
That is an outrageously long time to wait for a laptop without updates. From the prices I just looked up, it also is outrageously expensive.
I would have sought a refund before now already, but that’s just my opinion.
@wwwgem I’ve been extremely pleased with @tuxedocomputers in both product quality and support. Next laptop will assuredly be another from them.
I always recommend older (2-3 years behind) thinkpads and Dell latitudes. Most people don’t need latest and greatest, far more bang for you buck, and they’re relatively easy to repair.
Plus, it doesn’t hurt to keep a perfectly good machine out of a landfill.
I have a framework, pretty happy with it - Arch installed without any hitches and runs well. Only downside is how long it took to go from deposit to actually paying/shipping.
I’ve been wanting a Framework so bad. When I start working again (which should be soon), I’m going to save up for one.
The modularity, repairability, and price for specs are what attracts me compared to the other companies mentioned in this post.
Will not touch if they don’t support Coreboot/Libreboot (they have the profit margin to do it)
How long have you been waiting? Was it during the pandemic (when everyone was using this as an excuse)? Do you know if it seems to be a current issue?
Ordered on August 2nd, Shipped November 17th of 2023
If that’s something usual I’ll definitely avoid Framework. When I order a laptop it’s because I need a replacement very quickly for work.
If you’re in the US, the 13 is fully in stock and should ship on a week. OP may have preordered his
I didn’t think about that. If the usual shipping delay is reasonable then I feel better.
Most of the delays are effectively from pre-ordering. I ordered mine just after last Christmas, got it the first week in January. Would have probably been faster without the holidays. Also, get the AMD model if you can, it’s much better than the Intel offerings.
Great to hear! Going with AMD is something I’ve tried to do for a long time but I was not lucky with availability, I’ll definitely take the opportunity to do so with the next laptop!
I love my Framework. It may not feel as polished physically as the XPS. If you can find one in the wild to touch and try, I would recommend doing so.
They’re unfortunately harder to find in the wild than pokemons 😂 Have you experienced long delivery time as mentioned above?
I lucked out. When I was ready to pull the trigger it was just a couple of weeks before the next batch shipped. Got mine in just a few weeks.
Novacustom or System76, they actually use open Firmware.
Novacustom… Never heard of it. The almost insignificant disadvantage I can see so far for Framework is that they don’t use open-source boot. Everyone so far stand behind Framework. How would you sell me on System76 or Novacustom?
Framework tried Coreboot, has problems and gave up. When buying a Laptop with coreboot you support open Firmware Development for all CPUs, many board generations etc.
Just look at 3mdeb’s Dasharo guide. Its nearly as secure as Heads, on a modern Laptop!
Not true, firstly ‘framework’ never tried Coreboot they have provided boards to coreboot devs however, who’ve had issues including accidentally bricking the board. New boards have been shipped, and the origional fixed. They haven’t given up though completely and the work is still being done. There was a recent talk that had to be canceled due to the speaker getting sick on this subject. Work is likely still being done, but is slow, and will continue to be so.
Still though, there’s no evidence that framework has ever had or ever will have the intention of including core-boot by default. They’re simply supporting coreboot devs to make it compatable
The reasoning for why the others have it is likely due to system76 and nova customs using mostly generic parts like the shell and motherboard along with being around longer. It’s great to support a company that’s ensuring coreboot works on their system however and pushing towards a non-proprietary future
Thanks for clearing up. Frameworks are probably rather special and thus not as easy to coreboot
Yes, using coreboot would just have been nice to support open-source from all aspects.
Gnu/Linux…
Another happy Framework user here. I have 2 first gens in my immediate family and 2 second gens among my friends. All run Ubuntu LTS. No one is complaining. I’ve already replaced my bottom chassis because I destroyed it during a bad mishap. Ordering was easy, the part was inexpensive, the replacement was straightforward.
On the other hand System76 is building a new open source desktop environment in a sane programming language… 🤔 If COSMIC desktop turns out great and I end up using it, I’ll probably throw a couple of hundred their way in lieu of buy their laptop.
Thanks for a nice feedback. One more vote for Framework ;)
I don’t use a DE, so this would not make me go with them. Also, I’ll use Arch anyway, not PopOS.Oh I now remembered that mine developed a problem with one of the USB ports, not a cartridge but the host port. Framework sent me a new board. I replaced it easily and sent the bad one to them.
Wow that’s quite impressive. Serious customer service definitely.
I had a System76 10 years ago. The customer service was excellent (several months after receiving my laptop, they sent me a replacement keyboard, because they didn’t like the one it shipped with). The build quality was meh, it was a plastic body and didn’t hold up well to wear and tear, but it’s in my closet and still works. I haven’t tried their aluminum bodies.
I now have a Framework. It arrived with trackpad issues, and one of the HDMI adapters didn’t work at all. They shipped me replacements for both at no cost to me (except time). It’s been nice knowing that any other issues I do have can be replaced piecewise. Also I like that the webcam/mic have physical kill switches.
Very nice to read this feedback. I’m very sold to Framework after all the great things posted here. An impeccable customer support like the one you describe means a lot about a company.
I currently have a System76 laptop, and sincerely regret my purchase. When I purchased it, the Framework was not out yet - I wanted to support a company that supports right-to-repair, and figured since they controlled the hardware, firmware, and software (Pop!_OS), it would be a good, stable experience. It has not been, and support has generally be poor. I know other people have had better experiences than I have, but personally, I won’t be buying from them again.
I haven’t personally used Purism, but former co-workers spoke really poorly of them. They were trying to buy a big batch for work, and said the build quality was awful. Additionally: https://youtu.be/wKegmu0V75s
That’s actually a bit disappointing to hear. I have always been interested in system76 since their existence, but I’ve never actually purchased anything from them. Was about to impulse buy a desktop PC from them, but ultimately decided against it because it wasn’t really what I needed.
I have one problem with my s76, the usb c port rly sucks. Other than that the laptop runs very well but something so simple shouldnt be an issue imo there are some build quality issues going on…
My usb-c ports can be a little touchy, too. The SD card slot is also really bad - the card has to be positioned perfectly to slide in, or it jams. I’m also upset that the usb-c port can only be used for charging after a full boot. It cannot be used to perform firmware updates, or even to do a ram test. This means day-to-day, usb-c can be used, but I have to keep track of the barrel charger, just in case. This, of course, was not specified on the product details page (nor, I think, that only one of the two usb-c ports could be used for charging - it’s possible I overlooked that, but still frustrating on an expensive laptop that lists usb-c charging as a feature).
Dang, I did not even realize that about the usb c port only being usable after a full boot, since I just got it. I need to find out where I put that barrel charger. Haven’t tested the sd card slot yet but will try and report back.
Thanks very much for this important feedback. Framework is definitely taking the lead in responses to this post.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/wKegmu0V75s
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Framework and ThinkPad have both been a really positive experience.
Thanks for the feedback.
Re your update.
My framework has been great, I’ve had no issues with it and I’m quite happy. Make sure to go with the matte screen though.
In saying that, I think I was happier with my thinkpad, but I have no good scientific reason for that, I suspect the nipple and keyboard are a big part of it.
While I’m yet to do it myself, I would suggest getting a Thinkpad T480 and upgrading its RAM. The reason you want a T480 is because it was the last Thinkpad to have user removable parts. One tip: when using eBay, which you filter out the T480s. The T480s is not the same as the T480 since it doesn’t have user removable parts.
Second the T480, it’s a great Linux laptop and very upgradable. If possible try to make sure it already has an NVMe or SATA M.2 in the main drive bay. Switching from a 2.5 requires an adapter board and different cables.
Noted.
Lol that’s 6 years old!
Yeah it is but it’s a pretty capable laptop. I’ve replaced mine with a Framework 11th gen for my daily use but my T480 is currently hosting 10 VMs for my homelab. It’s got the base CPU, i5-8250U, 64GB of RAM and a 4TB SSD and is plenty of horsepower. I really only got the Framework because I was excited about the product and company, not because I was unsatisfied with the T480. I highly recommend it.
I am currently reviving an T410 for my kids. I put an 250 GB SSD inside and the newest Linux Mint and play around with it now. I am still on 4 GB Ram, as I didn’t want to spend the 60€ to upgrade to 8 GB, yet.
It runs great. I can watch YouTube, browse the web and rip some of my CDs for my NAS and my Kids Audio Players with that sweet internal DVD drive. My guess is 60% of the people would not need more computing power. And this machine was released in 2010.
What parts other than one stick of RAM aren’t upgradeable on the t480s? The processor? I’ve seen screen swaps, touchpad swaps, keyboard, just about everything. I got one back in the summer, added a stick of RAM to get up to 16gb, it’s running at 3200mhz like the other one, and swapped in a new OEM battery. It’s been great. I also recently bought a e495 for around 60 bucks, it’s thicker and plastic-ey, but also a solid Linux machine running an AMD CPU. Are the newer t14s really that crippled in repairability?
Thanks for the tip. I know a lot of people are going for Thinkpads and you’re specific recommendation may seem interesting but I’d like to support other companies like the ones I bought from so far (Toshiba, Lenovo, Dell, Vaio, Acer, PB, Razer) and I’d also like to build my own laptop from the start.
Of course. Just remember this when buying a laptop (and by extension a printer): FUCK HP!
HP are pretty awful when it comes to shenanigans with ink cartridges and all that, but HPLIP is great and deserves some credit.
I hate Lenovo and I have a Lenovo laptop. The company is shit but the laptops are great. I justify it by buying used.
I’ve been disappointed by them and as you can tell I’m not the kind of person to be married with a brand :D I may go back to them one day if there’s really one machine I want. Until then I’ll stay away from them. Also I really would like to support a company with a better philosophy (from my POV).
I haven’t loved a laptop like my 13 inch Framework since my Mac in 2004.
You can run Pop OS on it if you.like.
I would try to avoid any kind of brand-loyalty.
Find something that meets your specifications and try it out for yourself. If it works, keep it. If it doesn’t, return it.
Just about every retailer has guaranteed returns for 30 days on computers.
Check out https://old.reddit.com/r/LaptopDeals/ daily until you find something that meets your needs and budget.
Thanks. That does not not really address my question but I certainly share your view as to not be married to a brand. My personal history and this post question are actually going that route.
Framework and System76 are both pretty good and user-serviceable. I know System76’s customer service is particularly really good.
Framework. I’ve run Debian, Fedora and for a while now NixOS, all of which have worked flawlessly.
I did have to replace the heatsink/fan part on mine because the fan bearing started clicking, but I’m sure that was just a first generation product issue (I was one of the first batches). I was glad to be able to do the replacement myself at relatively low cost and the process couldn’t have been easier (took about 30 minutes).
My previous machine was a 2013-ish ThinkPad X series and the Framework absolutely blows it out of the water. I’m looking forward to upgrading mine to a Ryzen motherboard sometime in the not so distant future.
Wonderful to hear! Thanks for bringing one more vote to Framework :)
I’d be careful about buying ‘niche’ brands like framework and system76.
You’re going to be paying more for inferior hardware, and a lot of the people on these forums don’t really understand this.
Make sure you’re getting it because you want it, not because someone else wants it for you.
Influence is a curse in today’s world. I’ve made this final selection of brands based on personal choice and for reasons exposed in this post. But it’s all personal so you may disagree with some/all candidates and that’s perfectly fine. I’ve posted here to actually collect as much opinions as possible so thanks for sharing yours.
Companies always find a way to justify for higher price to sell you not that good hardware or to overprice their stuff for non sense reasons. As anyone else (except fan boys of any given brand) I’m running away from that. In my personal views, companies on this list have reasonable offers considering their history, clients pool, philosophy…
Framework is maybe the best deal here because it has good price and all parts of their machines are replaceable. And again, prices for the parts are fair. So in the long run, users may be winners if the company doesn’t crash. If it does then it won’t be worth than having bought from another company. With all the options to build the laptop you want for your needs it really make me feel like customizing my Linux system but from a hardware standpoint. It’s a big plus for me to pay only for what I want/need and with them you can go even further by physically positioning your ports on the fly. That’s an unseen degree of freedom and it has real world applications.
Framework prices aren’t cheap unless you really fudge the numbers. That said, it will still be my next laptop, because I’m fairly confident it will be cheaper long-term
I agree it’s clearly a win in the long run. Also their prices are not cheap but fair, even though you’d pay ~$100 less than an XPS for the exact same specs (but a higher res display and webcam with Framework).
framework are low in numbers, id check out tuxedo for linux laptops
