If you avoid Nvidia, it have been ready for many years. And to be honset, not sure X11 was really stable with Nvidia either. My main issue with Wayland, is that X doesn’t have multi dpi support… and for that I really cannot blame Wayland. Also, Skype doesn’t have screensharing, well, they actually had for a while, but then removed it… still, hard to blame on Wayland.
But as a general rule, if you have Nvidia, then you are not allowed to complain about anything… that was your choice, and with Nvidia under Linux, all bets are off. I thought that was clear a long time a go, especially after Linus not so subtle outburst.
But as a general rule, if you have Nvidia, then you are not allowed to complain about anything… that was your choice, and with Nvidia under Linux, all bets are off. I thought that was clear a long time a go, especially after Linus not so subtle outburst.
Yes, but Linux users aren’t always the most wealthy computer users, and people get given tech, inherit tech, bin dive for tech or get a good deal on tech in a primary or secondary market. Consumer choice is very often a privilege, and consumer awareness isn’t always total. So complain away Nvidia users!
thats exactly how I ended up with nvidia. its what i could get my hands on at the time, you just have to see their market share to explain how they are much easier to come by.
Machine learning pays my bills, and I never had a choice on my graphics card brand. To be sure, I wanted an AMD for the open source drivers, but CUDA remains essential to me. RocM support from AMD is a joke, and isn’t anywhere close to an alternative. Reseachers release code that only runs on CUDA for a good reason. To say that I don’t get to complain is going too far
Exactly. You’d think with the two things they’re really competitive on being raw flops and memory, they’d be a viable option for ML and scientific compute, but they’re just such a pain to work with that they’re pretty much irrelevant.
I got my Nvidia GPU before I even considered moving to Linux. I am honestly getting pretty tired of reading these gatekeeping comments telling me “I’m not allowed to complain about anything” or how I’m a trash person for buying an Nvidia card in the first place. Nvidia is the largest GPU manufacter, people are going to own Nvidia cards, you need to live with it. Be constructive and nice to other people.
X11 is rock solid with Nvidia, never had a single problem.
I had a lot of issues with Wayland on KDE, lots of flickering issues all the time. I moved to Hyprland and things are mostly fine. IntelliJ has ocasional problems but they are working on a Wayland version anyways.
But as a general rule, if you have Nvidia, then you are not allowed to complain about anything… that was your choice, and with Nvidia under Linux, all bets are off. I thought that was clear a long time a go, especially after Linus not so subtle outburst.
See, this attitude is exactly why Linux will never become mainstream. On Windows you don’t need to research if your machine will be able to run your operating system of choice, it just works.
If you’re a user, and you can install Linux without seeing a single warning that your hardware is going to cause issues, your distro is at fault. The moment you boot the installer, it knows damn well that your using Nvidia hardware and what the implications are. Distros either ignore the predictable instability, or they believe there is no problem, and either way the end user isn’t to blame for taking that at face value.
The truth is, Linux on Nvidia works fine, except for some very specific laptops with stupid mux chips, and even that is something Linux should fix, not the end user. Luckily, Linux installers don’t even boot on those machines, so the end user can just ignore Linux and continue using Windows.
You just can’t use Wayland if you want your Linux system to be stable, but X11 works fine and it will continue to do so for many years. Part of the Wayland issues still come from intermediate code refusing to work around Nvidia’s bullshit, ignoring known bugs and technically-spec-compliant-but-different stuff because it’s easier to blame Nvidia for everything. Wayland also makes some weird assumptions that I disagree with (“if the Wayland socket dies, your application must crash, there is no recovery”) which make minor stability problems a lot worse in practice.
Nvidia may be to blame for their shitty drivers when it comes to the core problem of the bad experiences Nvidia owners will have, not the end users buying the wrong hardware. You can’t seriously expect people who try it out for the first time to read up on the drama and controversy Linus Torvalds has caused over the years.
And even with all that, many serious Linux users who know full well the pain they’re about to subject themselves to still need Nvidia. ROCm is great but it’s nowhere near to as efficient and well-supported as CUDA. Whatever Intel has doesn’t come close and whatever macOS offers doesn’t work because even Nvidia has perfect Linux support compared to Apple.
Ha, your first sentence is just plain wrong. It was quite broken under “normal” usecases with per-DE bugs.
For example, on KDE, about 1.5 years ago the bug finally got fixed where your Wayland session would completely crash if your monitor lost any signal whatsoever (monitor sleep or shutting off the monitor). If you ask me, that is an very standard usecase without which there is no world where said action crashing the entire session would be considered ready for general use.
I think we are there now, just some visual glitches nowadays, also some recent glitches with monitor sleep, but Wayland very rarely crashes anymore.
If you avoid Nvidia, it have been ready for many years. And to be honset, not sure X11 was really stable with Nvidia either. My main issue with Wayland, is that X doesn’t have multi dpi support… and for that I really cannot blame Wayland. Also, Skype doesn’t have screensharing, well, they actually had for a while, but then removed it… still, hard to blame on Wayland.
But as a general rule, if you have Nvidia, then you are not allowed to complain about anything… that was your choice, and with Nvidia under Linux, all bets are off. I thought that was clear a long time a go, especially after Linus not so subtle outburst.
Yes, but Linux users aren’t always the most wealthy computer users, and people get given tech, inherit tech, bin dive for tech or get a good deal on tech in a primary or secondary market. Consumer choice is very often a privilege, and consumer awareness isn’t always total. So complain away Nvidia users!
And maybe if enough people complain NVIDIA will start behaving less like a bag of dicks?
Wishful thinking, I know, but one can hope.
I use NVIDIA (got macbookpro5,3 for free) and complain about NVIDIA 😂👌🏻 good like this?
thats exactly how I ended up with nvidia. its what i could get my hands on at the time, you just have to see their market share to explain how they are much easier to come by.
Machine learning pays my bills, and I never had a choice on my graphics card brand. To be sure, I wanted an AMD for the open source drivers, but CUDA remains essential to me. RocM support from AMD is a joke, and isn’t anywhere close to an alternative. Reseachers release code that only runs on CUDA for a good reason. To say that I don’t get to complain is going too far
Exactly. You’d think with the two things they’re really competitive on being raw flops and memory, they’d be a viable option for ML and scientific compute, but they’re just such a pain to work with that they’re pretty much irrelevant.
You get to complain to Nvidia, not Linux developers and maintainers.
That’s true, but it also wasn’t fair to be a Wayland detractor then.
Nvidia needed to do stuff to make that combination viable, and their delay in doing so wasn’t anyone’s fault but Nvidia’s
I got my Nvidia GPU before I even considered moving to Linux. I am honestly getting pretty tired of reading these gatekeeping comments telling me “I’m not allowed to complain about anything” or how I’m a trash person for buying an Nvidia card in the first place. Nvidia is the largest GPU manufacter, people are going to own Nvidia cards, you need to live with it. Be constructive and nice to other people.
X11 is rock solid with Nvidia, never had a single problem.
I had a lot of issues with Wayland on KDE, lots of flickering issues all the time. I moved to Hyprland and things are mostly fine. IntelliJ has ocasional problems but they are working on a Wayland version anyways.
See, this attitude is exactly why Linux will never become mainstream. On Windows you don’t need to research if your machine will be able to run your operating system of choice, it just works.
If you’re a user, and you can install Linux without seeing a single warning that your hardware is going to cause issues, your distro is at fault. The moment you boot the installer, it knows damn well that your using Nvidia hardware and what the implications are. Distros either ignore the predictable instability, or they believe there is no problem, and either way the end user isn’t to blame for taking that at face value.
The truth is, Linux on Nvidia works fine, except for some very specific laptops with stupid mux chips, and even that is something Linux should fix, not the end user. Luckily, Linux installers don’t even boot on those machines, so the end user can just ignore Linux and continue using Windows.
You just can’t use Wayland if you want your Linux system to be stable, but X11 works fine and it will continue to do so for many years. Part of the Wayland issues still come from intermediate code refusing to work around Nvidia’s bullshit, ignoring known bugs and technically-spec-compliant-but-different stuff because it’s easier to blame Nvidia for everything. Wayland also makes some weird assumptions that I disagree with (“if the Wayland socket dies, your application must crash, there is no recovery”) which make minor stability problems a lot worse in practice.
Nvidia may be to blame for their shitty drivers when it comes to the core problem of the bad experiences Nvidia owners will have, not the end users buying the wrong hardware. You can’t seriously expect people who try it out for the first time to read up on the drama and controversy Linus Torvalds has caused over the years.
And even with all that, many serious Linux users who know full well the pain they’re about to subject themselves to still need Nvidia. ROCm is great but it’s nowhere near to as efficient and well-supported as CUDA. Whatever Intel has doesn’t come close and whatever macOS offers doesn’t work because even Nvidia has perfect Linux support compared to Apple.
Ha, your first sentence is just plain wrong. It was quite broken under “normal” usecases with per-DE bugs.
For example, on KDE, about 1.5 years ago the bug finally got fixed where your Wayland session would completely crash if your monitor lost any signal whatsoever (monitor sleep or shutting off the monitor). If you ask me, that is an very standard usecase without which there is no world where said action crashing the entire session would be considered ready for general use.
I think we are there now, just some visual glitches nowadays, also some recent glitches with monitor sleep, but Wayland very rarely crashes anymore.