To people advocating violence in this thread - let’s just ignore the immorality of convincing civilians to assault and kill other civilians. It’s clear that vigilantism falls within your ethical boundaries and you are unrepentant about it. So instead:
If people start dying Trump will have the outrage-inducing incidents he DREAMS of. If someone kills Fuentes/others the cops will seize and search all their electronic devices and social media accounts. They’ll uncover all this violent vigilante rhetoric that radicalized the murderer and it will make the news. Trump will get all the proof he could want that “the enemy within” is a lethal threat, and he’ll make all these social media posts about “Trumpers are Nazis and Nazis aren’t people and only deserve bullets in their heads” national headlines. Fuentes and any others killed will be martyrs. Legal opposition that state governments, courts, civil liberty organizations, etc. are mustering will be swept away in the wake of radical left domestic terrorism and the fear it brings. Similar to how 9/11 turned into 20 years of war.
Some people here are apparently living in a magical world where they punch millions and the Nazis fall to the ground wailing “Mein gott, I am undone! What a fool I’ve been. I’ll be a better person!” and everyone around them cheers and promises to oppose Trump and vote Democrat. Even worse are the ones who want to start shooting people, as if killing extremist, insane media figures like Fuentes will make their hateful audience concede and become good citizens. This morning I literally had someone reference Inglorious Basterds as proof the nation would rise up and support them. Life isn’t a Tarantino film and you aren’t Brad Pitt.
What is actually going to happen if you punch these people is they will pull guns on you in self-defence and kill you, then get acquitted in conservative courts because you assaulted them. Remember crybaby Kyle Rittenhouse? If you shoot them, they will start killing people back. The plans to beat up and shoot fascists en masse is a wet dream for domestic terror organizations/militias like the Proud Boys. Violence won’t prevent purges, it will start them.
Basically all of these keyboard warriors aren’t going to actually do any of the really illegal punching and killing they are so proud to demand. They’re quick to say all Nazis must die right now to prevent “tens of millions of deaths”, but THANKFULLY it doesn’t seem like they’re actually killing the Nazis near them (and they really, really shouldn’t). So far it’s all “I don’t live near him” and “it sure would be a shame if someone else did it <wink>”. For essentially everyone posting this crap, again thankfully, it’s just internet power fantasies and hoping someone impressionable commits the crime and takes the consequences.
I’m not defending fascist trash like Fuentes, but I am opposing these calls for his death at the hands of angry internet “warriors”. Instead of telling everyone to kill their fellow citizens, how about protesting and visibly showing support for the women and minorities being targeted? How about making sure every American knows about measures like Gavin Newsom “Trump-proofing” California, or all the people and states already setting up legal challenges to things like mass deportations. What about making sure people know the Pentagon is furiously planning to resist and delay controversial orders? I assure you the Pentagon, state authorities and civil liberties organizations have far more effective and legal plans than angry Lemmy users convinced they’re going to punch and kill their way to a safe nation.
I dont think violence is generally demanded here though a certain amount of roleplaying is necessary to make it feel genuine. It is more that people want him to understand how it feels to have violence towards you a very real possibility because someone is painting a target on your back. Fuentes him self wont resort to violence mainly because he is just a cowardly manipulator and will never be a part of the mob (unless for occasional show). I think it is useful for such mob behaviour enablers to understand how it feels to be on the other end of the stick.
In a nutshell: If they hit one side of your face, turn the other cheek. Repeat it until both your face fucking hurts and they think it’s violent of you instead not kneeling down, not spreading your arms wide open, not putting your tongue between your teeth, not lifting your chin, so they could just kick your chin while holding you down, until you eventually bite off your tongue. Maybe after that, they will have remorse and not continue kicking you to death on the ground.
They already have “violent vigilante rhetoric”. They send bomb threats to anyone remotely pro-LGBTQ+, because some Jewish collaborant told them they’re grooming kids by their mere existence. The moral high ground won’t save any of us.
You know one of the reasons why they’re calling us “cucks”? Because we will take the moral high ground every time they hit a new low, including on positions we have never really hold. Remember all the “why are you so intolerant of intolerance?” posts? That caused many of us to just go full out tolerant of nazis, to not appear “anti free speech”, which for them means “free from criticism and with a guaranteed audience”, not “free expression until you don’t hurt others”. Hell, at the end days of my “nihilistic edgelord” phase, if I wanted to joke about Stalin alongside of Hitler, I got called out on the former, because the latter “only killed 600 000 (!) people”. (A number from a then common and dumb holocaust denialist theory of “they accidentally put one extra zero there”)
In a nutshell you don’t understand effective resistance, just violence. Your whole 1st paragraph is little more than torture porn - likely because you can’t argue with my specific points intellectually so you want to appeal to extremes of emotion.
Think. What do you suppose will accomplish more to slow and stop Trump? The Pentagon, state governments, courts, and civil rights organizations with their legal challenges and administrative knowledge? Or a couple hundred Lemmy warriors “storming” Chicago hunting podcasters and Illinois fascists who’ll they’ll magically identify and slaughter because you’re all supheroes apparently? And that’s assuming all of you aren’t just talking just talking tough because it makes you feel good, which has odds of very slim to none at all. Even -if- you could and actually would, do not sabotage real efforts towards foiling Trump by killing or assaulting people (not to mention your lives). If a civil war breaks out and it’s army vs. army that’s different, but the US isn’t near there yet and in the meantime you’re trying to be the WW2 Allies without the army or mandate.
They already have “violent vigilante rhetoric”.
“They’re evil so I should be allowed to do it too.” Let’s forget morality issues - in the context of murdering people like podcasters it doesn’t even make sense to race to the bottom. It will accomplish almost nothing and cause a host of problems. Let’s say miracles are real - you aren’t full of crap, you don’t get caught or killed, and you actually go murder Fuentes in cold blood or someone else like him. What do you honestly think the right’s response is going to be? “Oh crap, we better stop hating”? Creating martyrs and millions of angry, fearful people with guns is not the path to a safe nation.
You know one of the reasons why they’re calling us “cucks”?
Oh no, the incels and fascists on the extreme right don’t like me! …Are you really trying to tell me you’re upset about their insults? They can say whatever they want about me. Hell, you can too. I’m going to sleep just fine tonight without the approval of short-sided murder fetishists, regardless of whether they are your guys or Trump’s.
I gave alternatives at the bottom, about how to resist in a way that won’t hand the right everything they dream about, and get people killed (including a lot of people talking big if they follow through on their words).
I gave alternatives at the bottom (x2)
I gave alternatives at the bottom (x3), including examples of people already prepping resistance.
You say “waah”, I say luckily, almost all of you (probably 100%) won’t do a single act you’re so happy to push for. Tell me tough boy, when are you personally planning on putting up instead of shutting up? I don’t think you will - I’m damn near positive you’ll just ragepost and grumble about how you totally would have and how heroic that makes you. And to be clear I definitely don’t think you should even if you’re mentally unbalanced enough to do so.
To people advocating violence in this thread - let’s just ignore the immorality of convincing civilians to assault and kill other civilians. It’s clear that vigilantism falls within your ethical boundaries and you are unrepentant about it. So instead:
I’m not defending fascist trash like Fuentes, but I am opposing these calls for his death at the hands of angry internet “warriors”. Instead of telling everyone to kill their fellow citizens, how about protesting and visibly showing support for the women and minorities being targeted? How about making sure every American knows about measures like Gavin Newsom “Trump-proofing” California, or all the people and states already setting up legal challenges to things like mass deportations. What about making sure people know the Pentagon is furiously planning to resist and delay controversial orders? I assure you the Pentagon, state authorities and civil liberties organizations have far more effective and legal plans than angry Lemmy users convinced they’re going to punch and kill their way to a safe nation.
I dont think violence is generally demanded here though a certain amount of roleplaying is necessary to make it feel genuine. It is more that people want him to understand how it feels to have violence towards you a very real possibility because someone is painting a target on your back. Fuentes him self wont resort to violence mainly because he is just a cowardly manipulator and will never be a part of the mob (unless for occasional show). I think it is useful for such mob behaviour enablers to understand how it feels to be on the other end of the stick.
In a nutshell: If they hit one side of your face, turn the other cheek. Repeat it until both your face fucking hurts and they think it’s violent of you instead not kneeling down, not spreading your arms wide open, not putting your tongue between your teeth, not lifting your chin, so they could just kick your chin while holding you down, until you eventually bite off your tongue. Maybe after that, they will have remorse and not continue kicking you to death on the ground.
They already have “violent vigilante rhetoric”. They send bomb threats to anyone remotely pro-LGBTQ+, because some Jewish collaborant told them they’re grooming kids by their mere existence. The moral high ground won’t save any of us.
You know one of the reasons why they’re calling us “cucks”? Because we will take the moral high ground every time they hit a new low, including on positions we have never really hold. Remember all the “why are you so intolerant of intolerance?” posts? That caused many of us to just go full out tolerant of nazis, to not appear “anti free speech”, which for them means “free from criticism and with a guaranteed audience”, not “free expression until you don’t hurt others”. Hell, at the end days of my “nihilistic edgelord” phase, if I wanted to joke about Stalin alongside of Hitler, I got called out on the former, because the latter “only killed 600 000 (!) people”. (A number from a then common and dumb holocaust denialist theory of “they accidentally put one extra zero there”)
In a nutshell you don’t understand effective resistance, just violence. Your whole 1st paragraph is little more than torture porn - likely because you can’t argue with my specific points intellectually so you want to appeal to extremes of emotion.
Think. What do you suppose will accomplish more to slow and stop Trump? The Pentagon, state governments, courts, and civil rights organizations with their legal challenges and administrative knowledge? Or a couple hundred Lemmy warriors “storming” Chicago hunting podcasters and Illinois fascists who’ll they’ll magically identify and slaughter because you’re all supheroes apparently? And that’s assuming all of you aren’t just talking just talking tough because it makes you feel good, which has odds of very slim to none at all. Even -if- you could and actually would, do not sabotage real efforts towards foiling Trump by killing or assaulting people (not to mention your lives). If a civil war breaks out and it’s army vs. army that’s different, but the US isn’t near there yet and in the meantime you’re trying to be the WW2 Allies without the army or mandate.
“They’re evil so I should be allowed to do it too.” Let’s forget morality issues - in the context of murdering people like podcasters it doesn’t even make sense to race to the bottom. It will accomplish almost nothing and cause a host of problems. Let’s say miracles are real - you aren’t full of crap, you don’t get caught or killed, and you actually go murder Fuentes in cold blood or someone else like him. What do you honestly think the right’s response is going to be? “Oh crap, we better stop hating”? Creating martyrs and millions of angry, fearful people with guns is not the path to a safe nation.
Oh no, the incels and fascists on the extreme right don’t like me! …Are you really trying to tell me you’re upset about their insults? They can say whatever they want about me. Hell, you can too. I’m going to sleep just fine tonight without the approval of short-sided murder fetishists, regardless of whether they are your guys or Trump’s.
I wish I had your eloquence
That’s a wonderful compliment and I genuinely smiled. Everyone has their skills, and I’m 100% positive you exceed me in other ways. We all contribute.
Your points were a little wordy, but I think I can summarize this pretty succinctly:
he could not, in fact, summarize it