I will preface this by saying I understand that I am more radical, revolutionary, and extreme of a leftist than most. Despite that, I still ask that you actually engage with this as I’m asking in good faith.
When is enough enough? We have elected a fascist into the highest office and handed the keys to him and his friends. Is now not the time to actually get organized, involved, and armed? In my opinion, the time for peaceful, democratic means of avoiding fascism was before the election. But we have failed to do so, and as such there will soon be a tyrant in power. Are we going to wait until troops are rolling down the street to stage any form of resistance, because by then it’s far too late. Now I want to be clear that I am not advocating for random acts of violence or an insurrection like January 6th. But is this not a point of radicalization? Is this not where we start organizing within our communities and getting involved in mutual aid and resistance? How much more do we need before people are actually ready to stand, fight, and maybe even die to avoid continuing down the path that we are on? Fascism is not on the horizon, it is here. Are we really to do nothing about it as a society except lay down and accept our fate? Because that doesn’t jive with me. That makes absolutely no sense to me.
ETA: To the people responding, I will admit that I was heated and frustrated when writing this post. Having had time to cool off, reflect, and get some differing viewpoints my stance has changed to focus more on what needs to happen first and what’s practical. You may have seen that in my responses. That being said, I don’t disagree with what I said here, and I’m still frustrated we’re at this point at all. I’ve linked a comment though that elaborates upon what I actually want to see done though, which is a lot more reasonable and is still inline with this post.
My dude, I’ve had a few friends abs roommates who are refugees. All I will say is that war is hell, and to invite it is madness.
I disagree with violence until the elections are no longer free and fair.
Well its not exactly fair since the corporate media is siding with trump and sane-washing him, but elections are still, for the most part, legitimate.
Meaning, a majority of people actually support trump.
If you want to violently rebel, know that the people who didnt vote are mot gonna join your violent revolt.
If every Harris voter fight every Trump voter, they have a bigger number.
Besides, they have control of the military soon.
Dont destroy the system that still allows for elections until those elections have proven to be illegitimate.
Nobody knows who will rise out of the ashes of a revolt. You might end up with something worse.
Couple of things:
- Revolution sounds good until it actually happens, and then it sucks. It unleashes all the crazies and the outcome is uncertain. And it tanks the economy.
- If you look at exit polls, people told you why they voted for Trump. Rightly or wrongly, they don’t believe he is a fascist, or at least that the US system won’t allow him to indulge his fascist tendencies. Again, I don’t know if they are correct, but that’s what most people believe.
- The majority believe that the wokism and identity politics of the left is a greater threat to democracy than Trump.
So, the answer to your question is that you won’t find much support IRL because most people don’t actually think they are supporting fascism. Time will tell if Trump is an actual fascist or just a blowhard. I wish we didn’t have to wonder, but there you have it.
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I understand that. I’m not advocating for an immediate revolution but organizing and building mutual aid networks to protect those that are gonna be hit hardest. I also personally don’t care about the economy; i think caring about the economy more than people is how we got here.
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I understand. It’s really fucked up but that’s why we need to organize first. Whether or not a revolution happens, it’s never bad to organize.
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The majority also elected a fascist; see point 2.
So, the answer to your question is that you won’t find much support IRL because most people don’t actually think they are supporting fascism.
Half the country doesn’t think hes a fascist, but the other half does. Especially around the area that I am, I’m not worried about garnering support.
Time will tell if Trump is an actual fascist or just a blowhard.
Those who lie in bed with fascists are fascists imo.
OK, so what does this mutual aid look like? Are you talking about organizing armed resistance for when the Gestapo come for you? Or more like food-sharing for when the revolution comes? I don’t have a sense of what you are getting at.
I answered a lot more in depth in the comment I’m linking below. I will say i was very frustrated and emotional when writing this post, and having had time to cool off, think about it, and discuss it with some other people my stance has softened (which you might’ve seen in my responses, the one linked included). But I don’t disagree with what I said, just changed my focus onto what needs to happen first.
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Meh, I did my part. 51% of America wants a criminal facist dictator supported by his MAGA cronies in all levels of government.
I’m just going to put my head down, make money and keep my family safe.
Yep, at the end of the day, it is the will of the people. To me it sounds like we just need to divide up the country. The two sides are hopelessly far from compromise, or even tolerance of each other.
In real terms, we still have a lot left to lose before things get so bad it’s time to take up arms. The left is losing because it has spent all of its time responding to what the right has been doing and not enough time working towards the things their constituents want.
It is time to organize and get directly involved if you care about keeping things from getting worse. I can’t say this with any authority but there are three problems we have to solve:
- How can we reestablish a common reality with our neighbors? (Mis- and disinformation)
- How can we pull our neighbors back from the influence of fascists?
- How can we ensure that our children inherit better than what we have now and are about to go through?
The fight will come later, and it will come. Right now we have to prioritize supporting each other. We’re on our own for at least the next two years, we need to get creative and find ways to thrive in spite of the bullshit.
This whole thing reads like a Honeypot.
Yeah that’s fair, i know i glow like a rod of uranium
Late 2015.
Im a Trump supporter. Im down for a good faith conversation. I’ll start with this. How is Trump a fascist? If he was wouldn’t he need to be removed forcibly last time? I have never understand the fear towards Trump. He says some dumb shit but a fascist? I don’t see it.
Trump lies about accomplishments but is honest about what he says he wants. And what he has said are things like “wanting to be a dictator ‘for a day’” and wanting to use the National Guard or the military to go after political opponents. He has said that those on the other side are the scum of our country and need to be removed. He has said he wants to deport legal and illegals from the country. It is easy to verify these statements.
When Trump says he wants to do fascist things, I believe him.
Whether he supports it or not, Trump is ushering in Project 2025. The Republican party has control over the presidency, the senate, and the house. Additionally the Supreme Court has been compromised. Disagree if you want but Project 2025 is a christo-fascist plan to overtake the entire government. The implementation of Project 2025 is a literal life or death situation for a lot of the country. It will cause many women, people of color, queer people, and gender non-conforming people to die. This will also kill many services and programs that the working class people rely upon. This will only benefit the powerful and uber-wealthy. For everyone else it will be a horribly dystopic future. Anyone who thinks that they will benefit from this is misunderstanding how much will actually change. Otherwise they would have to lack empathy for their fellow humans.
Well, it’s crystal clear half of the population is stupid, hateful, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and so frightened they need a daddy to tell them what to think and do. To protect them from those people.
Leave, if you can. America as we know it is over. Welcome to The Oligarchic Theocratic Fourth Reich.
I’d say over half. I and many others in my circle are already executing on our escape. If we even can…
America is done.
For those that can’t leave, find a community, build a commune, and support each other. Strength in numbers.
We have to do both things. we have to get everyone we possibly can paying attention and work on peaceful ways to move ideas forward. i’m gonna keep saying make unions the base of* the dems. and point to minnesota who still has the democratic farmer labor party and pulles off some neat* shit.
there simply are not enough people available to do it quickly. it always ends with the people we claim to want to help being hurt. and we end up piled on top of them by some authoritarian we made a deal with.
now if you want to discuss disruptive actions that could need to be taken over the next few years. especially while throwing out the word arming. i’d like to kindly remind you we are in an armed police state on a Public. Fucking. Server. and point out that molitivcocktail hour does not announce itself and is never the option WE choose.
I’m armed, and competent with arms.
When it becomes a direct mild inconvenience, people will be fed up, maybe.
I mean what you saw last night is exactly why your revolutionary movement will be snuffed out. If the fascist has that kind of popular support, there is no revolution, only martyrdom. Maybe civil war.
First of all, I’m not from the USA so take this with a grain of salt, but are you suggesting the election was rigged or fraudulent? Because if not you’re the one trying to impose an authoritative regime. Like it or not he was elected democratically, and this time you can’t even use the excuse that your voting system is weird because he also got the majority of votes. So the majority of people in your country think that he’s the correct person for the job, or in any case don’t oppose him.
So what you’re talking about is for a minority to raise arms against the democratically elected government. You are the one who’s being anti-democratic. Even if you were to win the revolution you would need to put a tyrant in power because calling a new election would result in the same outcome.
Like it or not the majority of the people in your country are stupid enough to either want that or not caring. That’s one of the dangers of democracy, but starting a revolution to remove a democratically elected president in the name of democracy is just as dumb.
Yeah, nah.
Don’t tolerate intolerance, same goes with authoritarians, use force to remove them.
Sure, but so far he’s just the democratically elected president, if after his term is up he doesn’t want to leave then absolutely kick him by force. Until then any attack is, by definition, anti-democratic.
but are you suggesting the election was rigged or fraudulent?
no.
Because if not you’re the one trying to impose an authoritative regime.
also no, I’m advocating for community organizing against a very obviously fascist regime. im advocating for mutual aid and self reliance. y’know, the things people who are typically targeted by fascists need.
So what you’re talking about is for a minority to raise arms against the democratically elected government.
again, not what I’m saying.
Even if you were to win the revolution you would need to put a tyrant in power because calling a new election would result in the same outcome.
not necessarily?
That’s one of the dangers of democracy, but starting a revolution to remove a democratically elected president in the name of democracy is just as dumb.
nowhere did i say i was fighting in the name of democracy. I do think democracy is generally good, although i do not view the US as a democratic country. but that’s not what im advocating for at all in this. I’m advocating for genuine survival under an oppressive regime and solidarity amongst the people against tyranny. if shit gets real bad, do i think it’s just to fight against it and resist? absolutely. but as I’ve said in other comments, the American people aren’t close to that yet. we need to organize first.
So what you’re talking about is for a minority to raise arms against the democratically elected government. again, not what I’m saying.
Then I recommend you crack open a dictionary and check the meanings of “get organized, involved, and armed”, “stand, fight, and maybe even die” (your exact wording). Because raising arms against a democratically elected goverrnment IS EXACTLY what you are saying, albeit that you might not be saying you necessarily want to start that fight, but it certainly looks like it to me.
It’s been more than enough for a while now.
