How do I know this kind of thing ? What app can I use to measure this for my devices at home ?
If you have anything where internet is an add-on to what it does normally, especially BS like a washing machine, then it’s phoning home. That’s the reason they add such nonsense, and sell it as a feature to the buyer.
They have to run a backend for this stuff which eats into the profit of selling it…
That said, Wireshark is a common tool to monitor packets. I haven’t done it for a while. There’s also probably a package you can run on RPi just for this kind of thing. Using PiHole I can see how often and where devices are connecting. I’ve blocked a lot of domains - I’m currently blocking about 30% of all domain requests (most of that is from the TV and windows 10) and everything works fine.
If you buy a “smart” washing machine and actually connect it to the internet, you deserve what you get.
The smart people don’t connect these “smart” devices to the network
I don’t even let my smart TV connect to the internet. Why would I help it fetch ads for me lol
I have this really complicated home setup where I have these little switches on the walls and they control the lights it’s very clever.
With home automation sure I could turn the lights on and off in a room I’m not in but since I’m not in that room I don’t see the point. Anyway I can just pretend I’ve done that and then I’m not in the room so I won’t know it hasn’t happened. I really don’t see the point.
You can get home automated door locks, why. In what scenario would you ever want to unlock the door except when you’re in front of the door?
Meh. It’s an article based on a guy who didn’t even see what the data it was sending was our even if it was bugged
Until a robot can hang up my washing, my machine is staying off any networks
When it can you should still setup a private network just for them to communicate
Well the missing socks have to go somewhere… /s
Bought “smart” LG fridge, range and dishwasher a couple of years ago and never connected any of them, they function like they are supposed to, refrigerate, heat food and clean dirty dishes. No need to connect.
Fridge manual explained something like “in case of peak energy consumption your smart energy company can send a signal to your fridge to not use power”. What the heck do I need that for? To find spoiled food and mold growing in the fridge later on?
Why does one need to connect a range to WiFi?
Some people have hourly electric pricing, in their case it’s worth scheduling stuff based on predicted pricing. How that should is that you’d have a home server which controls your IoT stuff (so the gadgets themselves can be firewalled from the internet and controlled only by you) and then your server would fetch pricing data and pause stuff that doesn’t need to run when prices are high and run stuff like washing when it’s cheap
TIL - cool, makes sense.
It would make sense if we had a server that could fetch prices instead of opening up potential weak systems to the internet.
Because now manufacturers are tying the last year of their warranty to having the devices connected to their stupid information harvesting apps.
Was it being used as a node in a botnet? Or did it glitch somehow to keep sending over and over again? I can’t image that behavior is nominal for that washing machine.
There are probably 3 main groups of people with WiFi appliances:
- The vast majority of people don’t care, and put it on their normal WiFi router and would never notice something like this
- A smaller group of people don’t care much, but pay attention to their bandwidth usage and would spot an appliance trying to send 3.7 GB of data a day
- A much smaller group of people are paranoid and would put the device on its own isolated subnet, or use firewall-type features to limit the access their appliances have to the Internet.
My guess is that if this were a widespread problem, people in the second group would notice, or would have immediately checked and chimed in and said “holy crap, mine is doing this too”. I didn’t hear many people saying that, so I’m guessing this is a bug, and it’s either a one-off weirdness, or it’s a bug related to people in group 3 who are blocking their appliances from being able to connect to the Internet.
It’s probably something as simple as a badly programmed firmware update check that doesn’t do exponential backoff when it fails. It probably connects, fails, then immediately tries again. A proper exponential backoff would wait before trying again, and if it failed again it would double the wait time down to some minimum value like once per day or something.
Incidentally, this is also why claims about smartphones monitoring people’s conversations when they’re supposedly off is BS. That would require either huge amounts of bandwidth to transmit all the conversations, or huge amounts of computing power inside the phone to decode the voices. Either way you’d be using tons of battery, and probably a significant amount of bandwidth. There are enough paranoid people out there that if this were a real thing, someone would have caught the devices doing it by now.
I’m puzzled why a eashing machine should need any data, or even need internet connectivity at all.
LG’s app is an absolute privacy nightmare too. That app must be used if you want access to any smart appliance features and it requires precise location permissions 100% of the time. Even then, the app features are mediocre, it doesn’t work very well and often doesn’t notify of a finished wash load until long after it’s completed.
Why anyone would want to allow their washing machine manufacturer to continuously track their exact location in exchange for some crappy, poorly implemented features is beyond me.
The LG app also checks SafetyNet/Play Integrity so you can’t use it with root. They probably fear that you can then unleash how much more of a privacy nightmare it is.
I just use a timer on my phone … average wash cycle I use is about 30 minutes … just set a timer on your phone … KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid
Anybody in his right minds wouldn’t connect a washing machine to WiFi in the first place.
Why not?
My washing machine has wi-fi. I didn’t buy it for that reason, but it just happens to. Using the app, I have some programme options that aren’t possible to select using the hardware dials. I can do things like change the detergent dosage and the number of additional rinse cycles. It has some “special” programmes for various specific fabrics. And it has things like maintenance diagnostics and the ability to run a specific self-cleaning cycle.
That’s all pretty useful.
And what’s the actual danger of connecting it to wi-fi? Will Big Data know how often I wash my towels? Do I need to worry about the government spying on my fabric softener usage? Will hackers seize control of my machine and ransom my ability to get clean underwear?
I just can’t see the big downside here (other than the fact that the machine is more complicated than it needs to be, but that ship has already sailed seeing as I already own it).
My washing machine has wi-fi. I didn’t buy it for that reason, but it just happens to. Using the app
So you did not just connect it to your home wifi, but you also allowed the vendor to connect it to their servers. Now the vendor knows the name of your WiFi and the password. Just to begin with. Next year maybe this vendor’s website will get hacked and 20000 such wifi passwords go public in some darknet :-)
Using the app, I have some programme options that aren’t possible to select using the hardware dials.
Who benefits? You may find it cool to have it in the app, but FIRST the vendor has saved some of their money by not building the needed dials and buttons for these functions. (Or did they give you that discount? ;-))
And maybe in 3 years from now, they don’t feel like maintaining your app anymore. Are you going to shout “WARRANTY” at them?
I just can’t see the big downside here (other than the fact that the machine is more complicated than it needs to be
Yes, that is a downside, too. Part of this ‘smartness’ could break and maybe even the whole thing stops working when these ‘diagnostics’ give false data.
Another huge point is: My washing machines so far have lasted between 8 - 15 years. But NEVER has any wifi-active device lived that long. Think about this difference, and who’s the one who benefits from it?
Will hackers seize control of my machine and ransom my ability to get clean underwear?
It’s more likely that they’d seize control of it and add it to their botnet. Which is exactly what it looks like happened here. There was a small package downloaded, then a large amount of outgoing data. That looks like a compromised IoT device being used for a botnet. Small incoming package to hack the device, then the device starts spamming some poor dude across the country as part of a DDOS, because he beat a script kiddie in a COD match and the script kiddie is salty about it.
I was looking at one of those new washer/dryer combo units recently (I have heard these are common in Europe but they are fairly new to the US market) and it had a unique feature where you could fill the detergent reservoir, scan the barcode on the bottle, and the machine would dispense the appropriate amount of detergent for the load.
I can see connecting to the Internet on occasion might be helpful here to update the local barcode database, but I doubt it should need updating more often than once or twice a year. Does that mean the feature will work without constant live updates? Probably not, but I doubt it needs to update very often to remain current.
Plot twist: it was the Asus router misreporting the amount of data.
Tomorrow is my turn to post about this
