Some of the top browser makers around have issued a letter to the European Commission (EC) alleging that Microsoft gives the Edge browser an unfair advantage and should be subject to EU tech rules.

A letter seen by Reuters, sent by Vivaldi, Waterfox, and Wavebox, and supported by a group of web developers, also supports Opera’s move to take the EC to court over its decision to exclude Microsoft Edge from being subject to the Digital Markets Act (DMA).

As Edge comes pre-installed by default on Windows machines, users must navigate the Microsoft offering in order to download their browser of choice. The letter states that, “No platform independent browser can aspire to match Edge’s unparalleled distribution advantage on Windows. Edge is, moreover, the most important gateway for consumers to download an independent browser on Windows PCs.”

    • chingadera@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Long last effect from us nerds telling everyone to stop using IE, because Google wasn’t a hotplate covered in wet shit at the time.

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      I want that Web to die, die, die.

      Gemini is a step in the right direction, but the new Web should be both non-extensible by design and transparently allow distributed storage, distributed untrusted computation, and separation of the concepts of a site and a machine that serves it. In other words, serverless, where websites and services and even web applications are identified cryptographically, and anybody can contribute their computing power (or storage) to a site\service\application, out of desire to help or for money. With smart contracts, ghost keys and other buzzwords I have no real idea about.

      And fuck Microsoft.

  • 2pt_perversion@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    I agree with going after the Edge Lords and making things more fair…but I’m guessing Chrome is the most used we browser by a long shot even on windows so the “No platform independent browser can aspire to match Edge’s unparalleled distribution advantage on Windows." part feels like users are comfortable stepping over Edge’s corpse to download chrome anyway.

    • tb_@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      If users had a pop-up which allowed them to select more than just Edge or Chrome, other browsers may see an increase in users. Chrome is as much a default as Edge is in that way.

      • 2pt_perversion@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Again I’m in favor of choosing browsers on install, but lots of Chrome installs on Windows is not the same as being the default.

        So much so that you even get this annoying popup from Edge when you try to download Chrome with Edge - which should be against the rules imo.

        • tb_@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Sorry, I phrased that poorly. It is the default alternative, most users don’t bother to look for anything else.

          And Chrome also does pop-ups not unlike it when you visit Google websites on a non-Google browser.

    • myliltoehurts@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      It’s true, although chrome has gotten a significant boost from Google promoting it in search and every Google app (which I don’t know if they still do).

      So chrome beats edge on users, but it’s also likely largely because of the unfair advantage it receives/received from that promotion. Those options are not really available to other browser developers (unless Amazon or meta also decided they want a browser for some reason).

      • qevlarr@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Chrome got popular at introduction because it was much faster at loading and displaying websites. Sure, there was a marketing push by Google, but it succeeded on the products merits and not some unfair business advantage. It still is a great browser.

        We do need antitrust protections but not always because consumers are getting a bad product. It’s more about the balance of power. Maybe their products are good now, or their business practices are fair now to other market actors, but you never know when that will change and then it’s too late. It’s like you need safeguards against autocracy also when they’re genuinely doing good job of running the country, because it’s never worth it in the long run when they inevitably start doing nasty shit

  • Thomas@discuss.tchncs.de
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    9 months ago

    Please submit a second copy of that letter, but replace Windows with Android, PC with Mobile, Microsoft with Google, and Edge with Chrome.

  • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    A letter seen by Reuters, sent by Vivaldi, Waterfox, and Wavebox, and supported by a group of web developers, also supports Opera’s move to take the EC to court over its decision to exclude Microsoft Edge from being subject to the Digital Markets Act (DMA).

    OK…

    Shouldn’t they be fighting Chrome, more than anything? Surely there’s a legal avenue for that, though I guess there’s a risk of getting deprioritized by Google and basically disappearing.

  • StrongHorseWeakNeigh@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    I mean I really don’t think it’s that big of deal. Edge only makes up 5% of market share, so it’s obviously not helping them that much.

    • PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk
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      9 months ago

      That’s not the problematic metric though. It’s the 70-80% (link) install base of the Windows OS on desktop computers that Edge is installed with that’s the basis of the anti-competitive allegation.

      The fact that it still only takes 5% of the browser usage is more of a happy accident.

      • StrongHorseWeakNeigh@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        That makes sense but also they clearly need any edge they can get. Maybe they should even make it more difficult to install other browsers. Like artificially lowering the search results of other browsers. Maybe they could get 6% market share that way.

  • Llamatron@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Yup. Teams ignores default browser and opens URLs in Edge. I have to right click copy and open in Firefox. I refuse to be forced to use Edge

    • UnpledgedCatnapTipper@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      9 months ago

      There’s a setting Teams, under “Files and Links” where you can change it from Edge to Default Browser. Scummy that it works that way, but you can work around it at least (for now anyway).

    • JordanZ@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      This isn’t exactly true. It just has its own override. If you go into Settings and go to the ‘Files and Links’ section, then ‘Links open preference’ you can toggle it from Edge to Default Browser.

        • JordanZ@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          That’s why I called it an override. There are only two options in the drop down. Edge and Default Browser. They built an option to override the system default. MS will do everything they can think of to get you onto Edge.

  • Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz
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    9 months ago

    Windows is absolutely abusing their position as the dominant OS to push their other products. The number of “no don’t do that” messages and pop ups when trying to install chrome on a windows computer is clearly anti-competitive, and the only reason microsoft has been getting away with it is because Edge/etc hasn’t achieved enough market share.

  • Pasta Dental@sh.itjust.works
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    9 months ago

    Not to forget than when using bing, if you look for words like Firefox or Chrome, you get a large banner saying to use Edge instead. Super shady stuff

    • bizarroland@fedia.io
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      9 months ago

      Not to mention that Microsoft forces you to use a Microsoft account when you create your account on your home computer which is then automatically logged in to edge and being so that they can track and quantize more of every single thing you do on the internet to monetize you

        • kurcatovium@lemm.ee
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          9 months ago

          Well, it is impossible to install W11 Pro without MS account for normal person. Sure tech people can do it after couple seconds of web search, but your average PC user? Nope. No way.

        • bizarroland@fedia.io
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          9 months ago

          Oh yeah?

          Open edge and search for something. Check in the top right corner and tell me you’re not signed into some sort of pseudo-created Microsoft account.

        • scutiger@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Home versions, which most home users have, force the use of MS accounts. They’ve patched the bypass tricks that people used before.

          • horrorslice@lemmy.zip
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            9 months ago

            I do a workaround when installing/setting up Windows on others PCs. Use my dummy MS account -> create local user -> change to admin -> delete out the MS account. Boom, then only the local account is on the PC.

            • bizarroland@fedia.io
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              9 months ago

              I’m willing to bet you’re still ending up in their database. Unless you are using some sort of VPN to first obfuscate your location and then a brand new account that has been used before, then there’s going to be some record of similarity.

              When I’m installing Windows 10 or 11, I use the Rufus installer to create a pre-built admin account that I can sign in with.

              • horrorslice@lemmy.zip
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                9 months ago

                That’s a good point, and a good idea about modifying the installer. I will give this a shot next time I have to do a reinstall. Thanks!

          • one_knight_scripting@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Ah. Did not realize this was an issue with home. I can not say I experienced that. Hell, I still use Windows 7 pro keys to activate Windows 11.

            Do you know if you could use audit mode to bypass OOBE and get around it? Simply curious.

    • Aedis@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      This doesn’t make that behavior any less scummy, but have you tried using any Google website on a browser that isn’t chrome?

  • Matriks404@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    You could say the same about Android and iOS. They are preloaded with a web browser not many people change. In fact I’ve noticed that many users (mostly older) using Android don’t even know what browser they are using, since they just type shit into Google widget on their home screen.

    • Read Bio@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      And some linux distros bcs somtimes it’s preloaded with firefox and chromium and also macos with safari

    • VintageGenious@sh.itjust.works
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      9 months ago

      The google widget search bar is the thing I hate the most on default Android ui, alongside stupid bixby. Like the windows search bar, it doesn’t look good, always stays there and isn’t actually useful since you can still search with sometimes one click sometimes two. And the results are horribles with filled MSN-like news

    • Goun@lemmy.ml
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      9 months ago

      Fuck, this. My gf doesn’t even know what a “web page” is, she just knows this Google widget.

    • f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4@sopuli.xyz
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      9 months ago

      IIRC Samsung devices default to a Samsung web browser labelled “Internet”. You wouldn’t want to disable the “Internet”, right?

      iOS seems even more egregious, where it’s internally using Safari no matter what browser you install, giving the illusion of choice.