You might sideload an Android app, or manually install its APK package, if you’re using a custom version of Android that doesn’t include Google’s Play Store. Alternately, the app might be experimental, under development, or perhaps no longer maintained and offered by its developer. Until now, the existence of sideload-ready APKs on the web was something that seemed to be tolerated, if warned against, by Google.
This quiet standstill is being shaken up by a new feature in Google’s Play Integrity API. As reported by Android Authority, developer tools to push “remediation” dialogs during sideloading debuted at Google’s I/O conference in May, have begun showing up on users’ phones. Sideloaders of apps from the British shop Tesco, fandom app BeyBlade X, and ChatGPT have reported “Get this app from Play” prompts, which cannot be worked around. An Android gaming handheld user encountered a similarly worded prompt from Diablo Immortal on their device three months ago.
Google’s Play Integrity API is how apps have previously blocked access when loaded onto phones that are in some way modified from a stock OS with all Google Play integrations intact. Recently, a popular two-factor authentication app blocked access on rooted phones, including the security-minded GrapheneOS. Apps can call the Play Integrity API and get back an “integrity verdict,” relaying if the phone has a “trustworthy” software environment, has Google Play Protect enabled, and passes other software checks.
Graphene has questioned the veracity of Google’s Integrity API and SafetyNet Attestation systems, recommending instead standard Android hardware attestation. Rahman notes that apps do not have to take an all-or-nothing approach to integrity checking. Rather than block installation entirely, apps could call on the API only during sensitive actions, issuing a warning there. But not having a Play Store connection can also deprive developers of metrics, allow for installation on incompatible devices (and resulting bad reviews), and, of course, open the door to paid app piracy.
Ew. Fuck google
I hate having to be on the side of “Defending” google… but this is the app makers fault, They are the ones using whats provided and installing the artificial limitations.
Google just provided the capability to do it. The app makers are executing it.
Google and Apple have come out against legislation that would broaden sideloading rights for smartphone owners, citing security and reliability concerns.
Fuck off google.
Google and apple you can let us worry about our security ourselves, thank you, though I’m sure you have our best interests in mind and only that
…as I upvote you from my Pixel. ☹️ I give the sad face because Google isn’t who they once were and I’m just going to have to deal with that.
Never ask a company to pick between the right thing and profit. It was all a matter of time till Google needed to stop growing and start producing profit for investors.
To make it worse the Pixel 9 starts at $800 just like iPhone. So if you’re buying Android you don’t really save money over an iPhone like you used to.
Never ask a company to pick between the right thing and profit.
It’s fundamentally impossible for a publicly traded company not to choose profit over ‘The Right Thing’, fullstop. Shareholders feel that have a fundamental right to growth, and if Google’s CEO were to choose ‘The Right Thing’ over profit, the shareholders can oust them in favor of a CEO willing to choose profits.
Enshittification is where every public company ends up, because the line MUST go up, no other alternative is acceptable.
They’re still pissed that people won’t put up with their shitty YouTube app and use Revanced instead, eh?
That’s not on Google Play so it doesn’t affect it. I honestly don’t know what the point of this is.
Oh I see, so it only affects modded apks… They probably want to crack down on all those slightly-shady “spotify premium free”-apks.
No, it only affects vanilla apks where the dev implemented the check. For some reason the dev might forbid to run the app to users that side loaded the app instead of getting it from play store
Patched/modded apks are unaffected because the check is patched out
That seems likely. The question comes down to where the line should be drawn. Allow the apps the be installed and then when the data is eventually reported/found by the app owners to have them file law suits against those who are “stealing” from them, or to not allow the cracked application to be loaded in the first place, which is easily disguised as a security protocol because if an app has code in it that is not originally supposed to be there, it is very possibly a form of malware, which then can hurt the users in the long run or short run if it actually acts malicious and starts doing shit like old school viruses did on PC.
People want to say we own the device so we should be able to do whatever we want, but blatantly allowing people to install cracked apps with keyloggers onto their phones unintentionally will get them sued, and ultimately hurt how many people stay using their products.
Imagine every user and password with the site listed was suddenly just accessible by everyone. It would be a hellscape of credit card companies trying to stop accounts because you order 18 pizzas off the dominos app in Georgia, and another 13 sandwiches in the burger king app at the same time in Jersey.
We need to have the freedom to load apps we trust, but if you look at the standard user base, that’s who they have to make the phones for.
Could do something like make the users agree to terms by taking the phone into developer mode that makes them non responsible somehow? Might not hold up in court when they get sued though. “All the photos I took on my phone got shared online”
I think things are fine the way they are, we don’t need to interfere, unless for profits ofcourse.
People want to say we own the device so we should be able to do whatever we want, but blatantly allowing people to install cracked apps with keyloggers onto their phones unintentionally will get them sued, and ultimately hurt how many people stay using their products.
Imagine every user and password with the site listed was suddenly just accessible by everyone. It would be a hellscape of credit card companies trying to stop accounts because you order 18 pizzas off the dominos app in Georgia, and another 13 sandwiches in the burger king app at the same time in Jersey.
We need to have the freedom to load apps we trust, but if you look at the standard user base, that’s who they have to make the phones for.
It has been 16 years since Android came on the scene. Why do you think that these things are going to become such a big issue now in 2024 and beyond?
Long live custom degoogled ROM.
I get most of my stuff via F-Droid or I could use Obtainium. My tablet is Google-free. This sounds like my phone should be Google-free as well.
Yeah but banking apps are starting to check integritynet, and (in France, at least) they’re pretty much mandatory to do anything useful with your bank account/credit card online… I think Uber does too, I boycott them but others might follow suit…
Currently running lineageos, but I think I’ll just give up and go for a Pixel for my next phone… Sucks to let google win but I like to do useful things with my phone…
I use a hardware TAN generator though I also have a banking app as a fallback on my Lineage OS phone. If I ever buy a Pixel it’s only to install Graphene OS on it.
Sadly most French banks use a custom validation process which requires you to use their app to validate a transaction. And my main bank’s app has warned me that it will “soon” stop working on custom ROMs…
for me for example i just use the web version of navy federal, works pretty fine.
You can’t in some countries. Like if you want to wire something, or setup a payment you have to use the app. It’s mandatory. If you go through the website it ask to open the app to confirm it’s you.
i feel like if you switch to the desktop version of the website, it wont pester you.
Unfortunately it will, if I want to add a new transfer recipient or make a payment on a 3D secure website, the app is mandatory, even on desktop.
So people that only have a computer and not a smart phone can’t do those things at all?
Yes. They to go to a physical location. Then ask an employee there… Sounds so stupid to me but 🤷♂️
They have to call, mail or physically go to the bank I guess.
You can still pass play integrity with a rooted phone/custom ROM. Mine is currently passing with strong while rooted.
What do you use? I rooted my phone precisely for this, but google pay and my bank still see I’m not on the stock ROM : (
I’m currently using APatch, PIFork in script-only mode, and Tricky Store with a leaked keybox.
If you need to spoof for apps you’ll need some other stuff. For APatch there’s a thing called Cherish Peekaboo, for KernelSU you can use Shamiko. These will do their best to hide the fact that you’re rooted from apps. There are some detector apps that can help you fix things that apps might see, but there not entirely needed.
Also since you’re not on the stock ROM, you’ll need to spoof your props so just use the regular Play Integrity fix.
The EU is going to be furious about this
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The EU should limit Google giving developers this ability is what they mean
I hope so. I don’t want Android to become the new Apple
gee I wonder how long it will be before I can download the custom patches to get around this
Revanced patches will go BRRRRR on these
This is stupid. I will dig further into the real impact to Graphene.
Lucky Patcher?
Androids best advantage used to be full control of the device… Those were the days. Then it started with saying they know better than you, then locking you out. Now I’m waiting on a new, better solution.
Honestly it’s not like native Linux is too far fetched, but there would have to be a big open source common ground device collaboration.
Waiting for steamphone
Man I really hate how they stripped your permissions to access the internal and external storage, files can no longer access data from other apps even if you say allow all file access. Also if your phone supports SD cards, you might notice that you don’t have write access to it for some reason on later versions of android. (I really struggled with this with my Galaxy S9 on Lineage), had to use apps that remounted my SD card and what not
So the EU’s been forcing Apple to allow sideloading and Google goes Nah, it’ll be fine?
Google still allows sideloading, it’s the app developers that can prevent you from installing their app from other sources than Google Play. Sideloading an app works fine on Android if the app’s developer allows it. Apple didn’t allow that even if the app devs wanted it.
You are technically (and possibly legally) correct… But the spirit of the law is allowing customers to install what they want on their devices.
This move defuses the responsibility to the developers but EU showed in the past that what they care is the spirit of the law and not the law itself…and they are happy to change the laws to make them more adherent to the spirit
I would be really happy if you’re right, but I sadly think Google’s fine here. As far as I understand it, this particular regulation is to prevent a powerful actor (Google, Apple) to use their monopolistic powers to shut alternative stores down. It’s not about allowing customers to install whatever and however. Google doesn’t shut anyone down with this, so they should be fine. They give the option for app developers to choose if they want to run only on an attested platform - which they sell as a completely optional security feature that nobody has to use.
My guess is if the EU is going to take this further it would have to be regarding a potential monopoly on the attested platforms on the device. Google only offering their own platform as trusted could potentially be seen as another monopolistic behavior. If we’re lucky.
The problem is though that the attested platform only accepts Google play as a store, for this to be truly fair you’d need a way to set a default store setting up and then the attestation API checks that store, but as things currently are it’s giving Google play store an unfair advantage.
I have an android DAP (music player) that runs Android 7. It’s a box with a headphone jack (remember those?) and it’s sole purpose is to play offline music from an SD card.
I side-loaded a few music players, because there’s no way I’m putting my Google password in android 7 in 2024.
I’d be upset if I couldn’t side load. These DAPs never have an up to date android.
Let’s hope the music apps I use don’t block sideloading.
Poweramp won’t. Musicolet?
Likely android 7 would not honor (or even be aware) of this new metadata bit. You’ll be fine 🙂
I use apps that aren’t available in my region for language study, so this could end up being a real problem for me.
I’m pretty new to this sort of stuff. I was planning to buy Google Pixel 8 sometime in November when they usually have sales. And install GrapheneOS. I never used this type of stuff before.
So will I have some trouble installing some stuff like some of mobile games, banking app, emails, etc? I’m in Canada if this help.
If the Play Store becomes required like that then Android’s already-shaky status as an open source base platform is going to go out the window. I’m glad there are non-Google distros of Android but there really needs to be more of a push to make a completely FOSS phone platform.
Seems stupid of them to crackdown on sideloading given their recent and ongoing monopoly spanking.
There are Linux mobile operating systems like PostmarketOS, but they are too early in development to be used by most people.
Murena phones look promising. And you can download their e/OS if you want to flash the phone you have, provided it’s supported. https://murena.com
There are Linux phones available. I,m going to guess popularity of those devices to increase soon.
As much as I want that to be the case, I don’t think full mobile gnu+Linux is really ready to use daily?
I haven’t exactly been keeping up with things, mind you
Yes. I think a huge issue is Linux doesn’t handle other app activities like how Android’s Intent or Broadcast does.
I used it as my daily phone for months, and… well, I’m willing to deal with the problems. Without pretty careful battery management it’s not feasible, and it’s hard to manage your battery given the glitches. I often found my phone dead after a couple hours because it woke the screen immediately after I locked it because… reasons, and then kept it awake until the battery died. The biggest issue aside stuff like that (small issues that cause big problems), the biggest issue was I couldn’t get a map app working. There are some distros with working maps, none for my phone. Also call quality was horrendous. Like. I’m known for being able to tolerate bad quality, but this was, at times, about as bad as I remember my firefly phone being when I was 12, and I could not feasibly understand people at times with that thing.
But the only reason I stopped using it was because the wifi isn’t working on it. Once I get that back up and running I’ll likely switch back to it. As bad as it can be at times, I still feel more comfortable having that as my primary phone than my Android.
Really appreciate the insight
I sub to a few mobile Linux feeds and I want but don’t at all think mobile Linux is ready, even for tech devotees. Too battery hungry, not enough ease of use, missing functions, etc. And that’s not including lack of apps.
Sailfish gets closest so far I think. But yes, not ready. Ubuntu touch last time I tried is fine but still a bit out of sorts.
Just a note, one of if not the most popular mobile Linux distro is PostmarketOS, which is not GNU (it’s based on Alpine)
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You take that back now!
I,m going to guess popularity of those devices to increase soon.
I don’t want to be pessimistic about it, however I think it’s gonna be like Windows: enshittification will happen, but inconvenience is “too small” for people that they’ll rather check for a workaround than leave the platform.
My guess is that we need something more appealing like the Steam Deck to make people take the step.
I’d be happy with 2010 era desktop Linux level of support. It doesn’t need to get everybody to switch, just needs to be good enough for my needs.
My guess is that we need something more appealing like the Steam Deck to make people take the step.
Hear me out! The Steam Phone®!
Steam’s UI is tolerable, but inconsistent. In a SteamDeck, OK, but in a phone? Idk.
I get that this isn’t meant that seriously.
That was the hope with Android, too.
The problem is that as the OS is “free” that means it costs less functionally for the device manufacturer to get an OS on the device, so now they can pour more money into bloatware.
Android was supposed to stop bloatware but all it did was enable it.
Even without a forced “store” Linux is prey to the same issue of piecemeal support from various vendors all with in-house solutions that all stink.
At this point, even that would be preferable.
Your right, any open platform will be bastardized eventually, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t still a need for “resets”.
There is no perfect platform for escaping it, because the market forces will always adapt and assimilate. The only true escape is to keep moving.
That’s why it’s important for users to be hermit crabs, and move to the next thing, no matter how janky, because they will at least be able to influence it positively and have a relatively open platform for a number of years. Then the cycle repeats.
If propping up Linux phones will get us the open platform we need, even if only temporarily, we should do it.
The issue I think is that the current trends in all consumer software are increasingly user hostile, and the major platforms are creating ecosystems to support this. It’s become the norm now to be able to directly control the usage of the software on consumer devices. Apple has normalized this, Google and Microsoft followed.
At what point will developers refuse to even create software for a system that doesn’t allow them that control? Look at how many developers out there absolutely jerk themselves raw at the idea they should be able to compel users to update to continue using their software.
It’s a development culture issue. Respecting user control of their own device is no longer in vogue.
But part of the appeal of Linux is the fact that you can repurpose existing computers running other OSes to run Linux instead. This is a great way to lower the barrier to entry for Linux, because it’s easy to test it on a Live USB or a dual boot. It’s much harder to do this on phones because they have locked bootloaders.
Another problem is that phones are not productivity devices - they’re consumption devices. Maybe this is just my personal bias, but I don’t think people will be as passionate about liberating their phones because they’re inherently less useful than computers. Convenient, yes, but useful? Not as much.
That said, I would love to be proven wrong. I would definitely consider a Linux phone if they become more popular/useful, but I can’t really justify spending hundreds of euros/dollars on something for which I don’t see any particular use.
When I say Linux phones, I mean selling a phone with Linux already or Linux ready, not taking existing phones with Android and putting Linux on them.
Examples:
Purism Librem 5
PinePhone Pro
Pro1 X
Volla Phone X23
There aren’t, really. There are a few antiques and half baked things.
A big problem is that these days, unless you’re the size of Apple or Samsung, it’s impossible to get a reasonable hardware soc and modem other than one which only runs a soon obsolete blob laden android which is going to be EOL before you’ve even finished your design.
The hardware is not there. The firmware/hw data/platform isn’t there even to begin OS work with. And there’s a global shipping, regulation and mobile operator hell waiting on the other side. And a product lifecycle that’s only a few years long.
Yes, I’ve worked for phone manufacturers.
Sadly the only people who would switch over to an actual Linux phone would be the people like the stereotypical Linux using Lemmy user. The average android user would just continue on like nothing happened because they’re not tech literate enough to know what’s going on or why they should care.
Hey! I bought this android cus Im Tech literate u-u
Though im not one bit familiar with Linux.
The more I think about it, this may finally convince me to…shudders…switch to an iPhone. I’ve always stayed on Android because despite the recent Google bullshit, it still for the most part lets me do whatever. Side-loading apks is a huge part of that.
If it’s turning into a shittier iOS clone, what’s the point?
Can you side load on ios?
Seems like the kind of thing they wouldn’t want you to do?
Don’t do IOS, it’s such a pain. It took us 2 days to figure out how to play an audio book file that I was able to download an F-droid app for and play in like 3 minutes.
Yup that sounds about right for iOS.
Meant more that if Android ends up in the same boat (and by the looks of it, that’s exactly what Google and Samsung want), then iOS starts to look viable because the situation becomes: all the same bullshit but iOS is polished to a shine.
Don’t plan on switching phones until my less than year old Note 9 kicks the bucket 😅
