I’m going with this Dell and returning my Lenovo Slim 7 Pro. In my previous thread saying I switched to Windows I read that Dells offer great compatibility. I ordered this Dell XPS 13 and plan on going with Pop OS. Thoughts on this? Good choice?
If you want to use Linux on your laptop, is there any reason not to go for ‘dedicated’ Linux laptops?
FWIW, I haven’t seen these Linux-first vendors being mentioned under your post yet: NovaCustom and Star Labs.
God I love Kbin, never change
Yeah, the randomness keeps things spicy. Upvoting a thread and getting the error page just makes me want to try to upvote things harder
Out of curiosity, why not go for something that supports Linux out of the box? Why stock to mainstream?
Dell supports pre-installed Ubuntu on the XPS Plus configuration. You can order it with Ubuntu installed out of their webshop. They also have repos for all the drivers.
Xps 13 is a great laptop. Personally I would install arch or artix in it.
If you don’t care about using a webcam (it’s very unstable on linux), the machine is good. However, if you want to use a linux laptop, get a linux laptop, not something conceived for windows with linux as an afterthought. https://linuxpreloaded.com/ has a list of shops that sell linux first hardware
If you do however insist on buying something that’s windows first, it’s advisable to check the linux hardware database with your model first. For example, here’s the model you’re buying. Somewhat consistently, these components aren’t recognized across distros:
- Alder Lake Imaging Signal Processor
- Goodix USB2.0 MISC
- USB Bridge
and no webcam is detected at all. Having one of the Dell XPS 13s myself, I’d rather go for a TuxedoComputers laptop if given the choice, but if you don’t have that option and don’t care about the webcam, then it’s good choice.
What was your issue with the webcam? It may depend on the distro but mine works well even though I almost always use an external camera instead because most webcam quality sucks on any laptop and OS anyway.
Supporting Linux/open-source companies is certainly a plus. Not that there machines will work better but it makes more sense if you really want to adhere to the global philosophy of open-source. For the record I still didn’t go that route because either I couldn’t find the right machine or the price was significantly higher for similar products and I didn’t take the “risk” to spend more without enough certainty on the build quality. Experience varies and I’m sad to say that I convinced a friend to switch to Linux and he immediately jump on a Tuxedo machine but unfortunately it had a lot of hardware issues out of the box. One remains but I will not blame the company for this one (compatibility with a hiDPI external monitor).
The webcam straight up doesn’t work on ubuntu and debian, which are supposed to be supported. I’ve tried multiple things from around the web (“add this apt repo”, “enable/disable this kernel module”, “use this git repo with
dkms”, …) and consistently ran into issues. Now I just use an external camera.
Other people around me with the same or similar models had the exact same problem and there are many posts online about Dell’s weird camera choice. It sours the experience quite a bit, IMO.Tuxedo Computers has been a painless experience for me. Even got a relative one and after updating, everything works without issues and has been for a while now. Haven’t heard any complaints.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Always interesting to hear how things are (not) working for others. The only negative side of Linux - which is at the same time a good thing in other aspects - is the behavior difference across distros. Arch is working smoothly on the XPS 13 and the Razer Book 13 which is a very similar machine.
I have no doubt Tuxedo is great. My friend was just not lucky with his laptop. Like any brands there’re various positive and negative stories about their machines. Just here we have different experiences with Dell and Tuxedo. That’s just frustrating when you’re trying to collect info to help you decide on a buy. Ending up with issues while you did your best to prevent them is really a killer to the excitement you should have with your new laptop.
Ending up with issues while you did your best to prevent them is really a killer to the excitement you should have with your new laptop.
Yeah, that’s true. I do think it’ll take a while before there’s a truly good linux laptop brand that people will recognize and that’ll show up in general ads. The brands closest to that atm are slimbook, purism, and tuxedocomputers, I think. But time will tell.
Just want to add that Framework isn’t quite Linux first, more like Linux second / Linux conscious. With some tweaking it works great but there are sometimes little issues that crop up, especially if you’re using the newest machines.
For example, when I got my Intel 12th gen Framework last year, X was super laggy (opening a terminal and typing a few characters might take several seconds). You’d have to end up disabling some kernel power management setting. That was fixed in later kernel releases and was because it was new hardware, but their focus pre-release was making sure Windows worked well on it, not Linux. Technically even now there’s some kind of conflict between the ambient light sensor and the screen brightness keys and the fix has always been to disable the light sensor, so I’ve never actually used that feature on my laptop (unsure why Windows is unaffected).
It’s still a great laptop and I absolutely love them, but I think other shops like System76 should get credit for their top-tier Linux support.
I had my framework AMD and I havent encountered any problem with fedora 39; besides very early bios (only affecting batch 1 and early batch 2, I believe) and a AMD display bug (which is documented in detail and fixable with one command).
Everything else works extremely smoothly, including webcam, brightness key, ambient light sensor, and privacy shutter. Honestly, I would put their support against any linux first laptop, their support team is very responsive, and their support lead was the ex-support lead from system 76.
One more bit of information: the very laptop on the fedora workstation webpage is a framework laptop. They seem to be on very good term with most distro developers, and likely will get more attention when something goes wrong.
I think most of the problem you mentioned are the nature of new hardware, not caused by poor support from framework.
One of the reason I landed on framework is because they offer cutting-edge hardware that other manufactures don’t.
I think they are still the only linux manufacture that uses AMD 7040U chip, which is a great everyday chip with excellent power efficiency. This kind of make them stand out from the competition for me.
I don’t think their Linux support is bad, but it’s not Linux first. If Windows users had to run a command to fix a display bug it would have been held back until it was fixed. With something like System76 you get a laptop with Linux preinstalled that just works, no commands necessary.
Keep in mind I called them Linux-conscious / Linux-second. They still focus on making it a fantastic machine for Linux users, but I think it’s a little less than some other shops provide for Linux.
They do let their Windows DIY user to fix problems, for example the new AMD laptop requires a modified ISO, since the Windows installer don’t have up-to-date wifi drivers.
Also Windows user needs to use command prompt to install firmwares, where Linux user don’t need to.
All of these are documented in detail in their guide: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Windows+11+Installation+on+the+Framework+Laptop+DIY+Edition/116
So I don’t think they are intensionally providing subpar experience for Linux. It is just the nature of cutting-edge hardware, I believe they made the tradeoff between cutting-edge and stability (keep in mind, you can buy older hardware as well), not between Windows and Linux.
The only thing they can do better is have laptop preloaded with linux, but I cn kind of understand keeping laptop in stock with three different OS’s and a DIY version while keeping everything up-to-date is a logistic challenge. Yet several linux laptop manufacture do offer that option.
Thanks for the comment. That was the impression I got as well, but a few other comments I’ve read (on other threads) seemed to imply it was a linux first laptop.
I do remember the first time I opened the page, it was a windows laptop and was the reason I decided against buying one. Your comment does confirm it for me. I’ll add a note to my previous comment.
I have Lenovo and not happy with it. Weird issues like unable to start it when battery has run out and it’s plugged into docking station. Need to wait like 15 mins before it even turns on.
Also issues with docking stations (from Dell) not showing external screen unless i unplug the cable at boot and then put it in during boot.
I guess all this could be because I run Linux though but I’m just not happy with the laptop.
I would get a framework laptop as a next one.
XPS13 has very highly positive reviews from several sources. I’ve had the same dilemma as you 3 years ago and went with the XPS13 9310 and I’m extremely happy with it. So much that I bought an on sale Razer Book 13 for my wife since it’s almost an XPS 13 with a different name.
Note that I don’t have the “developer” version of the XPS but it runs with no issues at all. I can install Linux myself, don’t need someone to do that for me and I’m not using Ubuntu anyway. Also, the delivery delay were insane when I bought it and I was extremely lucky to find a “regular” version in one of my local stores.I’ve tried a lot of laptops over 30 years and no brand was convincing enough to get me returning to them every time. I just go where I can find the hardware I need enclosed in a well-enough robust case and I’m done. All the parts are sold by the same manufacturers anyway. The difference between brands is just which parts are assembled together and how well it’s done.
As a bonus, it’s also nice that the firmware of the XPS 13 (including th,e bios) can be updated with fwupd.
Get a framework. I have a Dell and upgrading the kernel breaks the trackpad /wifi/bluetooth sometimes. I had to hold the kernel package. Really regret not getting a framework
Brand does not matter. You will likely get in trouble with any new laptop model. Install the latest kernel, and probably most of them will be gone. But some can be fixed only after a year or so.
My Dell wirh preinstalled Ubuntu had a fingerprint scanner not working, wifi chip losing connection and disabled “subwoofer” (lol). After a year or two of upgrading a distro everything works (well, I mapped subwoofer output in config and idk if this still needed or not).
I’ve been using XPS 13 as my “daily driver” for about 4-ish years now (I think the 9300 model came out in late 2019? Maybe 2020. I can’t remeber tbh). It’s been running Debian and I’ve never really had any problems with it. I didn’t order the Developer Model as I wasn’t going to run Ubuntu and I don’t really need Linux preinstalled (and as added bonus, it comes with Windows OEM license, which you can use in your QEMU).
It has a shit battery time, but so does every Linux laptop. I don’t want biometrics on my devices, so I’ve never used the facescanning or figerprint sensors, no idea if they work, I’d assume they do.
I’ve connected it to a USB-C hub with dual 1080p screens, webcam, microphone, external USB etc in the office. Works perfectly. I travel quite a lot, it’s light and easy carry, I bought a small USB-C travel charger. Trackpad palm detection in Linux is bad, so I normally carry a small travel mouse with me and disable the trackpad if I need to do some writing.
It’s got a SD-micro card slot, which is very useful, I can store my disk encryption keys on it and take it with me when I need to leave the laptop in hotel rooms etc.
Never had a problem connecting it to any presentation display at customers. I miss ThinkPad keyboard layout, but it is what it is. Not a dealbreaker.
Overall, it’s served me well over these years - and there’s not much signs of wear and tear on it. Solid build quality.
I think the XPS 13 is a nice device.
For reference: I think your mistake was buying a Lenovo laptop without the word “ThinkPad” in the name. There are Lenovo Thinkpad something devices. They are (usually) more likely to support Linux. And there are Lenovo comsumer devices and they’re a mixed bag.
I used to love Thinkpad laptops up until Lenovo bought the line - build quality dropped off a cliff after that. I’ve avoided them since then so I can’t comment on their current build qualities except to say they used to be built stronger than those toughbooks with handles.
I’ve had good ones and meh ones. In terms of build quality, the X1 Carbon gen3 I got ages ago was outstanding in most respects (including how easy it is to get the back off), but the memory is unfortunately soldered and the CPU is decidedly mid-field, and it was a refurb so I couldn’t really up-spec it. The T14 gen2 (AMD) I got a couple years ago and use as a personal dev machine these days has WAY better hardware (Ryzen7 5850U; 16g soldered + 16g SODIMM), but the build quality is not as nice and the back is WAY more of a pain to get off (fucking plastic clip sections).
I’ve had no real issues with either in terms of Linux compatibility; I’ve installed various distros on both of them, but generally have settled on to Ubuntu or Fedora for long periods. The old X1 is back to windows now though, simply because I am repairing and modifying a car with an OBD-II port, and it’s way simpler to use pretty much any automotive diagnostic software from a windows platform, and I wasn’t using it for anything else.
Edit: also my old IBM T60p from college - iirc one of the last ones they made before Lenovo bought them. Bloody thing just refuses to die lol
I had a X61, I think that was shortly after Lenovo started building them and still very much like the models before. But that was a long long time ago.
Writing as a butterfingers and looking at my last three linux lappies…
XPS are fragile, so avoid if clumsy. The saving grace of thinkpads are they are droppable, throwable, kickable. However I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Framework
For Linux compatibility, something like this https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/ would be better than Dell XPS 13.
The XPS 13 series (with the “developer” name addition that has nothing to do with development, but hey …) has official Linux support (Ubuntu).
Dell maintains an own repo for it and provides all drivers and first installation images for the devices.
Yeah, I knew it, I still would get a TUXEDO computer, something like TUXEDO InfinityBook S 15 - Gen8, the DELL XPS 13 is very small, small keyboard, very portable but not really nice to work with. And TUXEDO looks much more into Linux than DELL.
I can finance through Best Buy via their credit card which is why I’m going with the Dell.
Dell XPS 13 with the “developer” label is also pretty nice so it’s all good, but check that it has the “developer” label, or it will be not designed to be compatible, if I’m not wrong, the main difference is the Wi-Fi adapter. Also, out of this topic, careful with the finance and credit card, it’s always a scam unless you really need it to work I wouldn’t spend money that I don’t have.
EDIT: About the compatibility, on this Reddit post, people are saying there is not really any difference https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/fjb9na/difference_between_the_standard_and_developer/, and I think the Wi-Fi adapter was only on the old versions (years ago when I bought mine). Haha… 😛
Don’t know about Pop OS, but I’m running an XPS 13 (9380) with Arch using Wayland without any issues.
Same, I would go to Arch (for me the best distro, it’s clean), and if you want something easier just Linux Mint.
EDIT: I would forget about PopOS, really think this distro suck.
Specs look good for the price, and those machine work great with Linux (I’m using Ubuntu 22.04 on the slightly earlier 9310 right now).
The only slight downside of the 9315 is that the SSD is soldered to the motherboard. Make sure you back up your data regularly, because there might be no way to get anything off the machine if it breaks.
There’s also something of a lack of IO; just one USB-C on each side (which is nice, because you can plug the charger into either side). But I have no issues with Bluetooth headphones, and monitors with USB-C have always worked great for plugging larger numbers of peripherals in.
I ordered a docking station to provide a HDMI 2.1 port and some more USB options along with an Ethernet port.
