I’ve just been out for food with parents (60’s) and nana (80’s) and I don’t know why I go as they leave me disheartened every time damn time.
In the short span of a couple of hours they (mainly my nana but parents will have silly views too) managed to comment on the number of black athletes at the Olympics (somehow being a bad thing), shit on the upcoming Para-olympics (quote: disabled people should just accept their lot and not try sport), protesters (of any kind) and questioning if any protests have ever been successful, to which I answered the suffragette‘s we’re pretty successful.
Complaining about people being spoilt these days at the same time as my nana confessing she was given food in a bowl at my aunties and refused to eat it unless it was on a plate (seems pretty spoilt to me). Asking for things to be like when she was younger, to which I asked if she was a fan of Nazi Germany as she grew up post WWII.
I guess I am wondering how can I come from a family that seemingly has no compassion for anybody and even less empathy for anybody different than them. They make me angry at times and I know I can be annoying my always challenging their bullshit views, but I can’t sit there and let people take utter nonsense like this.
I haven’t even covered half the awful stuff they say and their warped ideals.
Edit: The other one that irritates me is them (two women ) shitting on female athletes. Like WTF if a female wants to be a footballer what skin is it off their noses. Unless they just bitter they people have more choice to be themselves now.
My grandma used to be, but years of Facebook right-wing propaganda has poisoned her.
Now she spouts conspiracy talking points about the “trans agenda” immigration, and so forth.
My parents have always been pretty right wing but covid pushed them even farther.
They aren’t hardcore MAGA nuts, but they are pretty pro Trump, especially my dad. They also buy the propaganda from Fox news hook, line, and sinker.
My dad couldn’t be cooler. My grandmother and all her friends are very chill too. My grandfather is sometimes grumpy and weird about stuff, but shuts up or changes his mind about it pretty quickly. My mother, and probably that whole part of the family, is pretty conservative-right. Not very nice.
I wish I had a cool grandad and I am happy yours are cool.
Can I ask why you can’t let them talk their nonsense? I know you don’t think you can change them so if you choose to hang out with them, why can’t you just let them be them? I’m not telling you that you should hang out with them, just that joining in on their discussion is a zero sum game.
I chose not to interact with family any longer and haven’t spoken to any of them in years. Not out of anger or spite but simply because none of us were getting anything positive from the relationship.
Sure. I honestly can’t control myself, I go with intentions of rising above it but then I can’t.
I suppose if you’re not trying to let people know that their views are not acceptable then you’re part of the problem.
I realise it’s futile and maybe there is an air of righteousness to my personality that I need to address. I just can’t sit there and allow people in our party to spew hatred without saying something.
I know for a fact that if we had a disabled family member competing in the paras then they would have a different view. Kinda like the only moral abortion is my abortion and I find that deplorable as I try to treat everybody the same whether you’re family or not.
I suppose if you’re not trying to let people know that their views are not acceptable then you’re part of the problem.
Yes, but how are you approaching this discussion?
I think there are different ways to handle this. On one hand you can be hostile and “give them what they deserve”. On the other hand you can engage in friendly arguments.
This is a story about how someone from the Westboro Baptist Church left because of the way that people engaged with her. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVV2Zk88beY
What’s worth noting from this story, people that were hostile in their interactions with her only served to entrench her further in her ideals.
What caused her to change her mind were the people that had “friendly arguments” and made an effort to learn where she was coming from.
She listed out 4 key points when engaging in difficult conversations. I extracted/paraphrased some of what she said below:
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Don’t assume bad intent (assume good or neutral intent instead) - Assuming ill motive almost instantly cuts you off from truly understanding why someone does and believes as they do. We forget that they’re a human being with a lifetime of experience that shaped their mind and we get stuck on that first wave of anger and the conversation has a very hard time ever moving beyond it.
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Ask Questions - Asking questions helps us map the disconnect. We can’t present effective arguments if we don’t understand where the other side is coming from.
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Stay calm - She though that “[her] rightness justified [her] rudeness”. When things get too hostile during a conversation, tell a joke, recommend a book, change the subject, or excuse yourself from the conversation. The discussion isn’t over, but pause it for a time to let tensions dissapate.
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Make the argument - One side effect of having strong beliefs is that we sometimes assume that the value of our position is, or should be, obvious and self-evident. That we shouldn’t have to defend our positions because they’re so clearly right and good. If it were that simple, we would all see things the same way.
You can’t expect others to spontaneously change their minds. If we want change, we have to make the case for it.
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Asking for things to be like when she was younger, to which I asked if she was a fan of Nazi Germany as she grew up post WWII.
Uh, what? Why the hell would you equate growing up in Germany after WWII with Nazis?
I guess I am wondering how can I come from a family that seemingly has no compassion for anybody and even less empathy for anybody different than them.
Maybe start with yourself? Recognize change is difficult, nostalgia is comfortable, and for someone who grew up pre-internet by several decades, the current world is probably overwhelming at times.
Your family’s comments on the number of black athletes and on paralympics sound sus, but you don’t exactly present yourself as a beacon of inclusivity either.
Self-reflection is a great place to start to grow empathy and understanding of others. Or to discover for oneself when it’s time to cut losses.
So the Nazi comment wasn’t so much Germany, but the fact that she thinks the world is broken now because we like to be inclusive and recognise our failings. I was merely pointing out that her era tried to kill all Jewish people.
I don’t think being inclusive should extend to hate speech against people of colour of disabled people, if that makes me exclusionary then I guess I am happy to exclude those antiquated views.
Self reflection is kinda why I made this post. To see how other people might handle these situations better than I clearly do.
“Her era” didn’t try to kill all Jewish people though. She was a child at a point in time after WWII. You’re trying to explain her entire personality with a falsehood. Why?
Non-Nazis can be racist. Sounds like she may be one such person. Still doesn’t mean she’s a Nazi.
I think there is some confusion here and that’s on me for not being clearer.
I wasn’t referencing Nazis for any reason other than to show that things are not as bad as they were when she was growing up.
Trying to stop them reminiscing over a time that was much worse than it is now. Like if they want to complain that just stop oil protestors are horrible people and they didn’t have them in her era, I just wanted to remind that she grew up in a bombed out shell of a country just to hatred against one group of people.
My parents are still very Mormon, which means being openly bigoted is bad manners. That said, I don’t think I ever visit without my dad saying something about climate change being a hoax, illegals voting in California, wildfires being part of some AntiFa conspiracy, etc. Can’t tell whether he sincerely believes this nonsense or is just trying to get a reaction. I try not to engage other than asking where he learned about it and how he’s tried to fact check it. These discussions are not productive, and I don’t visit unless it’s a major holiday or someone’s birthday.
my grandparents have passed away now, but when i knew them they were unfailingly polite in public.
in private, Grandma had reservations about japanese people. i gave her leeway. Pearl Harbor was bombed on her birthday, and Grandpa went to Iwo Jima. i still felt i could bring a japanese boyfriend around, and as long as i was happy, he’d be treated right. Grandpa didn’t even suggest reservations. he took everyone as an individual worthy of respect until their behavior suggested differently.
my parents are in their 60s now, but i don’t have contact with them for other reasons. the last time i looked at my mom’s twitter i thought she had been hacked, the MAGA rhetoric she was spewing was so awful. not hacked, just an asshole.
more or less. my grandparents are already dead, but as far as i remember the last one living of them which i had contact with (my mother’s mother) was ok with lgbtq+ people (as far as defending their right to marriage) and quite concerned with the rights of disabled, but was somehow racist towards black and indigenous people, and could not stand demonstrations of social movements (i.e. sit-ins from landless workers and squatters, strikes and the like). my parents go about the same, but my mom is much less racist.
Yepp, pretty typical. I have family that calls themselves progressive and say similar shit to yours.
I pretty much resorted to considering them all dead.
It’s pretty funny when they wonder why I don’t come around anymore. “It’s because of you, you bigoted racist piece of garbage fuck.”
Mom, yes. Dad, no.
Dad’s a bigot that doesn’t understand why he can’t use “those kind of words” these days so he rants about it in private.
HOWEVER…he would never say it to their face, he’s at least THAT self-aware. And for the most part, he wouldn’t hassle them (or anyone).
While his personal beliefs are most certainly bigoted. He’s anti-LGBTQ+, anti-indigenous (we’re in Canada), anti-immigrant (he himself IS a fucking immigrant…smh)
But his biggest trait is simply live and let live. He doesn’t agree with them, but he has no interest in forcing that disagreement upon them.
He basically believes in everyone minding their own damn business regardless of what they may personally believe.
My parents, yes absolutely. They are responsible for me growing up to be a tolerant, left-leaning person in a mostly conservative rural area. Being boomers, they might not be up to date with all the current LGBT terms or things like that, but they definitely have/had an open mind and don’t judge people.
My paternal grandparents (born in the 1910s and 1920s) were very religious. My dad had to suffer a very strict upbringing under them. He was not allowed to read comics, watch TV, read sci-fi novels etc (though he did all of these things in secret). I only knew them as a child when they were already in their 80s and they were nice to me, but from what I’ve heard from my dad not necessarily nice people, and definitely not tolerant.
My maternal grandma (never knew my grandpa) rarely ever talked about politics or society or anything. She was a very down-to-earth person. That said, she definitely held some bigoted views in the form of prejudice against foreigners. She had major reservations when some Turkish people moved in next door. She eventually became friends with them though, so she managed to overcome her prejudice. I’d say she was a nice person.
My maternal grandmother - extremely nice and sweet, died of breast cancer when I was a kid so I don’t remember much else about her.
My maternal grandfather - convicted for soliciting an underage prostitute (undercover cop), that’s all I know about him and it’s enough. Not sure if he’s even alive.
Paternal grandparents - psychotic religious fanatics (burned our Harry Potter and Mickey the sorcerer books while babysitting when I was a baby, killed multiple of my dad’s pets growing up, etc). Have only seen that grandmother when the grandfather died and at a Christmas party a month later - still psychotic and super rude.
My parents - nicest people you’ll ever meet, I have basically no bad memories from being raised (except my dad only makes broccoli and cauliflower by microwaving it)
Mine are old, but I have in-law and ex-out-law old people around and it’s a mixed bag. Certainly nobody who would complain about the mix of Olympic athletes, but ex MOL will complain about welfare queens even though she herself got welfare to get through nursing school and has to know that statistically that’s how most people use it. And they will gather and whine.
I think my kids see me as progressive, their dad as actively and harmfully regressive, their stepdad (my husband) as old and not able to keep up with change, too conservative but not hateful.
I don’t have any living ones, but at least on my mom’s side they seem to have been pretty nice people. Can’t say much about my grandpa in his elderly age since he died when I was fairly young, but my grandma was sweet, whether she was just at home or out and about.
Can’t say much for my grandpa on my dad’s side since I don’t remember him, but from what I’ve heard from stories from my parents, he may not have been the nicest person in general. Definitely glad I didn’t grow up with him because I remember a story my dad told of him breaking a dish at his house and then hiding in a closet, not knowing how he’d react to the broken dish or something like that. Something like that. Thankfully my dad is absolutely nothing like how his dad sounded. And my grandma on his side didn’t seem much better, considering when my mom was pregnant with my oldest brother she tried to get my dad to ditch her.
Edit:
I’ve been told before that my mom absolutely wouldn’t let me or my older brothers be alone with my grandpa on my dad’s side.
Edit Edit:
As for tolerant, I can’t speak for any of them that much, but I at least know my grandpa on my dad’s side had to have some degree of tolerance considering he was gay and at one point had a partner. I assume being married to my grandma was more of one of those societal pressures back then. Just getting married in general, even if it ends in a divorce like their marriage did.
Depending on how old you are, and whether you are financially dependent on them, I would tell them to go fuck themselves. I’d also tell your grandma the world is changing, she’s gonna die soon, and there’s nothing she can do to change either one. Flip them the bird and walk out.
Obviously, personalities are different. This might not work for you, but you can’t just fight back with facts because they refuse to play that way. If they want to throw this kind of shit your way, you have no obligation, nor should you, play by the rules of “they go low, we go high”. That’s always been bullshit anyway. Especially in a situation like this.
Very. I’m lucky that my family is mostly liberal.
