- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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People who feel they need to have their travel, hotel, event fees, etc. compensated are not a good fit for this program.
So “NO POOR PEOPLE.”
I disliked Framework ever since their “fans” (paid trolls) started bombarding every Thinkpad post on reddit with “frAmEwoRk iS tHe neW tHinKpaD” replies. Normally I support the little guy, but I really hope Lenovo creates their own modular laptop so I can buy one of them instead.
Good luck hoping for anything about Lenovo, they’ve gone down and down the shitter ever since they “split” from IBM.
No I don’t own a framework nor plan to do so, I’m just an average IT guy who is forced to choose between Lenovo and Mac to work, and after the third garbage laptop in a row bit the bullet and got the Mac. I also own an x200 and a t430 that i was in love with - nothing to do with the present day latrines masquerading as computers.
Screw Lenovo really. Hope for some decent competition to framework (I hope for that too, they are currently the only ones in that niche) but don’t hope for it from them.
Pretty much same here - I kept an x230 alive until I had to accept earlier this year that it just is bad for overall productivity, and ended up getting a macbook. None of the newer thinkpads are good - and they’re still one of the less bad manufacturers.
There’s also enough stuff I don’t like about the mac - but the current keyboard is one of the better notebook keyboards available right now, and if you want long battery life, lots of RAM and a lot of CPU power available in a compact device they’re the only manufacturer currently offering that.
Heh, if you think Lenovo is bad and mac vs Lenovo is a bad choice to have to make…
…what do you put forth as the shining beacon of laptop mfgs? Cos it ain’t Dell, and it sure isn’t HP.
Who else is there?
Apple and wait for Asahi Linux to finish their driver support 🫠 don’t know what to tell you man.
I have never tried framework laptops - maybe they’re glorious, maybe they’re junk - but of all the laptops I tried Apple are the only decent ones hardware-wise (and software-wise too if you like osx).
I don’t know who else makes decent laptops nowadays, but Lenovo isn’t it, and most likely won’t be.
My T16 is fantastic. I wish it were more moddable, but it’s an amazing machine. Extremely quiet and powerful, I love the 16:10 screen. They keyboard is amazing too. Framework also has 16:10 screens and they’re more moddable, but I doubt their keyboards are any good. And as a profitable company they should pay people for advertising and data collection.
Lenovo is a lot more hit and miss than it used to. My T14 heaven has Linux bugs with the trackpad.
Or even better have a laptop that can be built from multiple brand parts. I want framework to be a standard.
I think the program specifically targets the people that are an active user of framework AND actively attend those events anyway. So being paid by framework doesn’t change whether that person goes to an event or not. That makes a certain sense IMHO since if you are only attending if being paid to do so, then you are not a volunteer.
From my read, this is not even for marketing, but mainly for feedback to improve framework products. Framework will also have merch packages for the ambassador.
These ambassadors would attend linux conferences anyways, framework just want them to communicate to frameworks when anyone have any feedback.
I am okay with this.
Oh nice!
Then it’s really just a bad name. Volunteer ambassador implies a lot of other responsibilities.
Other industries call it like VIP or Insiders Club. And their responsibilities for being a part of it is to also share the excitement of the product.
Two rules:
Your second link is honestly should be a sticky on a lot of communities and I try to always show people that video to illustrate how hard things are for people.
If you’re working for a privately owned for-profit corporation, you’re not a volunteer.
If you’re not getting paid for that work, you’re a volunteer. That’s literally what a volunteer is.
I agree there’s a lot of problems with unpaid internships and work and such, but I don’t think this is that bad?
It feels like “hey, if you really like our product and want to show it off, we can send you information and merch, and put you in touch with higher ups.”
I’d complain if Microsoft or Google started doing this, because they are huge megacorps with deep pockets, but Framework seems like a small company that can’t really afford huge marketing departments. If people want to devote their time to a cause they beleive in, more power to them.
They also aren’t doing it with the promise or threat of something, which is an issue with a lot of unpaid work. The people they’re targeting know exactly what they are getting into, and that they are doing it for their own reasons.
Yeah, I’m fine with it.
can’t afford huge marketing departments
Then they need to market within their budget. That’s not an excuse.
a cause they beleive in
profitable companies are causes now
Profitable companies don’t get to have “volunteers.” Non-profits and charities get to have those. This is data collection for product development, and advertising for products.
This is a reason for me to not buy a Framework laptop.
profitable companies are causes now
People want to promote companies with ethical business practices. I don’t understand why that’s such a problem for you.
I won’t even volunteer feedback to companies when they ask for it, and they incessantly ask for it.
Well that’s your prerogative but I’ve no idea what that has to do with this conversation. Nobody should be allowed to do it because you don’t want to do it?
Companies ask for feedback so they can make products people actually want to buy…you have a problem with that as well?
Well its not gonna get any better by not supporting the companies that try to do better.
I don’t put up with for-profit companies any more than I have to. I don’t support them or do charity work for them. Corporate brands are not out friends.
What non-profit company did you get the computer you are currently using to type these messages from?
Do you think that’s a clever gotcha? I said, “I don’t put up with for-profit companies any more than I have to.”
You might want to actually read the article, cause that’s completely missing the point of the program, and ignoring all context. As with all things, context matters.
It’s a free market though. You can just buy from the wonderful companies that are Dell or Lenovo instead. Don’t try to look to closely at them, or you won’t be able to but a laptop ever again.
I did actually read the article and I did not miss the point even a little bit.
I think the jury is still out on whether Framework can be profitable. And by that definition, literally asking someone what product you want them to make is data collection.
I’m not a fan of a for-profit organisation having unpaid workers, but I get it if they want to see an otherwise unprofitable, yet passionate demographic. If they can compensate the person in other ways like was mentioned above (merch, contact with decision makers, possibly info on future products) then there is some exchange happening there and maybe that’s worth it to the right person.
Fix Consumer Electronics
We know consumer electronics can be better for you and for the environment. Unlike most products, ours are open for you to repair and upgrade.
That’s the “cause” that people believe in. And the volunteers that they are looking for are those that think Framework are the way to accomplish it. Realistically, that problem can’t be solved by a non-profit - Materials, logistics and R&D can’t be done by volunteers. So a corporation is the only reasonable choice for the goal they want to accomplish.
I’m sure they would love to be able to pay all the people that will volunteer, but they likely just don’t have the money. So it’s either give volunteers something for helping out, or just do nothing and ignore them.
I think the “Showcasing Framework Laptops” is what rubs me the wrong way. I like the idea of trying to get feedback and learn the need of real linux users but anything that qualifies as marketing should be paid.
Like many others, I have mixed feelings on this. If anyone is stopping by and doesn’t want to read through the linked forum thread, this is frameworks goal:
This isn’t a program to get people to go to conferences and rep Framework, it’s a program to give people who are already going to conferences and showing off their Framework some swag and opportunities to talk with the team. It’s not assigning work, it’s just saying thank you to people who are excited about Framework and active in the Linux community.
That is how they should have described it right away, nobody would have been upset about it.
What I feel would be acceptable:
If you’re proud of your Framework laptop and want to brag about it, we’ll give you some swag for free that you can show off with when you’re out and about!
What this looked like to me:
If you’re attending a conference we’d be paid to attend, but can’t go to, will you show off your Framework laptop to attendees in an effort to convince them to buy one from us too, and we’ll send you some stickers?
The issue isn’t even what they’re asking for, but how their asking it.
Ubuntu has had ambassadors for a very long time, the first is essentially how they did it. Also, local events was mostly things like LUG meetings or actual events in the area.
This seems very poorly conceived and exploitative. Or at the very least, very poorly communicated.
They could’ve worded it better, and make it clearer in the first couple of sentences that this is intended for owners of FWs who already go to these events.
I had bigger issues with, say, Ubisoft and JGL getting artist to work for exposure on Beyond Good and Evil 2 back when that was a thing.
But I also 100% that it feels like asking for free labour, intended or not.
I don’t have a Framework Laptop, can I still apply?
Our ambassadors need to be active users and owners of Framework Laptop(s)
That’s pathetic. In place of financial compensation, the least they could do is to give Framework notebooks away. Doesn’t even have to be a gift right away. There could be strings attached. “On loan first but you can keep it after X amount of time.”
Maybe they could at least establish a way of tipping people who help solve issues.
Send me a laptop and I’ll spend a few hours a week helping on your forums or even tickets. But no one should work for free
I don’t have a Framework Laptop, can I still apply? Our ambassadors need to be active users and owners of Framework Laptop(s)
I wonder if volunteer ambassadors have to report to someone and if they have deadlines…
I’ll do it for a free laptpp
I can understand why this may be a issue to some people. I think if they asked Windows users this, there wouldn’t be as much of a strong reaction to this. Maybe it comes off as exploiting the good will of the Linux community, but I can’t read minds.
I’m personally ok with this. If someone willingly volunteers and enjoys doing this, then what’s the problem? But again, I’m not sure if that’s the core issue at hand here.
it feels to me, like they’re less looking for new people to start doing this “work”, but more to connect with people who already happen to be enthusiastically going to events and showing off their laptops.
Not passing judgement at this volunteering specifically but willingly doing something doesn’t necessarily mean there’s no problems. It could still be exploitative.
Framework clarified they are looking for people who already own Frameworks and are already attending Linux events and happy to talk to people about their laptop. They’re not really asking people to do anything additional, but they will be giving them some free merchandise.
Windows did have something liked this. It was the MVP program.
Linux means free (cost) labor and software right?
Anyway this program is probably going to flop as you will get the bottom of the barrel.
There is nothing wrong with selling Free Software.
This involves travel. I don’t know of anyone who is willing to leave their day job and just travel out of pocket without any compensation. I like the company, but this is doable if you’re a YouTuber maybe? I don’t see anyone doing it, honestly.
I don’t see anyone doing it, honestly.
Brainwashing can achieve so many things. Surely people thinking paid FW employees are their friends and it’s merely doing their friends a favor (and in return they get stickers, some to keep, most to hand out).
