- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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This involves travel. I don’t know of anyone who is willing to leave their day job and just travel out of pocket without any compensation. I like the company, but this is doable if you’re a YouTuber maybe? I don’t see anyone doing it, honestly.
I don’t see anyone doing it, honestly.
Brainwashing can achieve so many things. Surely people thinking paid FW employees are their friends and it’s merely doing their friends a favor (and in return they get stickers, some to keep, most to hand out).
This is an awful and scummy move, in exchange for marketing their product they give out stickers? They aren’t giving out Framework laptops and if setting up a framework station at a convention costs money you’re supposed to pay for it yourself? If I ever want to upgrade to a modern laptop I think I’ll choose System76.
Aren’t the just rebranding some generic ones that they vetted for compatibility? I heard that somewhere, so take it with a grain of salt.
I have a Framework 13" DIY running Linux. It is functional. I am reasonably confident I will be able to buy replacements for anything that breaks which is important to me. It is well designed for repair and upgrade but other devices offer better price/performance/features. If you are on a tight budget and care about the environment buy used.
If you are on a tight budget
Not for tight budgets
If you are on a tight budget and care about the environment buy used.
For how long?
I purchased in December 2022. I have not needed to buy any replacement parts but availability appears good.
At the same time I bought one of my kids the cheapest MSI laptop I could find for school. I just learned some of the keys on the MSI have been working intermittently. I have no idea what to do with it. We didn’t value a laptop for running Microsoft Word very highly and spent the savings on linux desktop upgrades. I can’t say it was the wrong choice. With the Framework it is trivial to check the connector or order a replacement but there was a substantial price difference.
Out of selfishness I would like people to keep buying Framework so they keep their replacement parts stocked but blind brand loyalty is stupid. People don’t need renumeration to engage in a hobby but if they are working for a company then unpaid labour is generally an abuse.
You can probably find a used keyboard on eBay. Even if the OEM doesn’t sell parts plenty of people will part out old broken machines.
I can understand why this may be a issue to some people. I think if they asked Windows users this, there wouldn’t be as much of a strong reaction to this. Maybe it comes off as exploiting the good will of the Linux community, but I can’t read minds.
I’m personally ok with this. If someone willingly volunteers and enjoys doing this, then what’s the problem? But again, I’m not sure if that’s the core issue at hand here.
Not passing judgement at this volunteering specifically but willingly doing something doesn’t necessarily mean there’s no problems. It could still be exploitative.
Framework clarified they are looking for people who already own Frameworks and are already attending Linux events and happy to talk to people about their laptop. They’re not really asking people to do anything additional, but they will be giving them some free merchandise.
it feels to me, like they’re less looking for new people to start doing this “work”, but more to connect with people who already happen to be enthusiastically going to events and showing off their laptops.
Windows did have something liked this. It was the MVP program.
Hm. I don’t have anything against volunteer roles (there’s a difference between volunteer roles and “unpaid work”, “unpaid work” implies a form of coercion—if it’s a volunteer role you can say no with no punishment or consequence), but the way it’s described, e.g. the implied expectation of conducting yourself professionally at Linux conferences, makes it sound like it will have quite a bit more responsibility than most volunteer roles in the Linux community. And Framework isn’t a nonprofit; they produce and sell commodities, so they should be able to pay their own workers.
I’m not rioting over it, I don’t ultimately care too much and if people want to volunteer for this role that’s their choice. I think I’d prefer they paid these ambassadors but ultimately if you don’t want to do this for free there’s not really anything coercing you into doing it, so.
Linux means free (cost) labor and software right?
Anyway this program is probably going to flop as you will get the bottom of the barrel.
There is nothing wrong with selling Free Software.
There’s nothing wrong with volunteering with a FOSS project
That’s hardware.
Its both. And there’s nothing wrong with volunteering for it
I wouldn’t blame a volunteer but I think its wrong for for-profit companies to ask for non remunerated work
There’s nothing wrong with them asking
There is something wrong if they make demands
Framework is not a FOSS project, it’s not a charity or a non-profit organization, it’s a company. Would you volunteer to work for free at your job?
I do volunteer for open hardware projects, yes.
Two rules:
Your second link is honestly should be a sticky on a lot of communities and I try to always show people that video to illustrate how hard things are for people.
If you’re working for a privately owned for-profit corporation, you’re not a volunteer.
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I agree there’s a lot of problems with unpaid internships and work and such, but I don’t think this is that bad?
It feels like “hey, if you really like our product and want to show it off, we can send you information and merch, and put you in touch with higher ups.”
I’d complain if Microsoft or Google started doing this, because they are huge megacorps with deep pockets, but Framework seems like a small company that can’t really afford huge marketing departments. If people want to devote their time to a cause they beleive in, more power to them.
They also aren’t doing it with the promise or threat of something, which is an issue with a lot of unpaid work. The people they’re targeting know exactly what they are getting into, and that they are doing it for their own reasons.
can’t afford huge marketing departments
Then they need to market within their budget. That’s not an excuse.
Yeah, I’m fine with it.
a cause they beleive in
profitable companies are causes now
Profitable companies don’t get to have “volunteers.” Non-profits and charities get to have those. This is data collection for product development, and advertising for products.
This is a reason for me to not buy a Framework laptop.
Fix Consumer Electronics
We know consumer electronics can be better for you and for the environment. Unlike most products, ours are open for you to repair and upgrade.
That’s the “cause” that people believe in. And the volunteers that they are looking for are those that think Framework are the way to accomplish it. Realistically, that problem can’t be solved by a non-profit - Materials, logistics and R&D can’t be done by volunteers. So a corporation is the only reasonable choice for the goal they want to accomplish.
I’m sure they would love to be able to pay all the people that will volunteer, but they likely just don’t have the money. So it’s either give volunteers something for helping out, or just do nothing and ignore them.
You might want to actually read the article, cause that’s completely missing the point of the program, and ignoring all context. As with all things, context matters.
It’s a free market though. You can just buy from the wonderful companies that are Dell or Lenovo instead. Don’t try to look to closely at them, or you won’t be able to but a laptop ever again.
I did actually read the article and I did not miss the point even a little bit.
I think the jury is still out on whether Framework can be profitable. And by that definition, literally asking someone what product you want them to make is data collection.
I’m not a fan of a for-profit organisation having unpaid workers, but I get it if they want to see an otherwise unprofitable, yet passionate demographic. If they can compensate the person in other ways like was mentioned above (merch, contact with decision makers, possibly info on future products) then there is some exchange happening there and maybe that’s worth it to the right person.
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I won’t even volunteer feedback to companies when they ask for it, and they incessantly ask for it.
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Well its not gonna get any better by not supporting the companies that try to do better.
I don’t put up with for-profit companies any more than I have to. I don’t support them or do charity work for them. Corporate brands are not out friends.
What non-profit company did you get the computer you are currently using to type these messages from?
Do you think that’s a clever gotcha? I said, “I don’t put up with for-profit companies any more than I have to.”
I think the “Showcasing Framework Laptops” is what rubs me the wrong way. I like the idea of trying to get feedback and learn the need of real linux users but anything that qualifies as marketing should be paid.
Like many others, I have mixed feelings on this. If anyone is stopping by and doesn’t want to read through the linked forum thread, this is frameworks goal:
This isn’t a program to get people to go to conferences and rep Framework, it’s a program to give people who are already going to conferences and showing off their Framework some swag and opportunities to talk with the team. It’s not assigning work, it’s just saying thank you to people who are excited about Framework and active in the Linux community.
That is how they should have described it right away, nobody would have been upset about it.
What I feel would be acceptable:
If you’re proud of your Framework laptop and want to brag about it, we’ll give you some swag for free that you can show off with when you’re out and about!
What this looked like to me:
If you’re attending a conference we’d be paid to attend, but can’t go to, will you show off your Framework laptop to attendees in an effort to convince them to buy one from us too, and we’ll send you some stickers?
The issue isn’t even what they’re asking for, but how their asking it.
Ubuntu has had ambassadors for a very long time, the first is essentially how they did it. Also, local events was mostly things like LUG meetings or actual events in the area.
This seems very poorly conceived and exploitative. Or at the very least, very poorly communicated.
They closed it to new comments.
People who feel they need to have their travel, hotel, event fees, etc. compensated are not a good fit for this program.
So “NO POOR PEOPLE.”
I disliked Framework ever since their “fans” (paid trolls) started bombarding every Thinkpad post on reddit with “frAmEwoRk iS tHe neW tHinKpaD” replies. Normally I support the little guy, but I really hope Lenovo creates their own modular laptop so I can buy one of them instead.
Good luck hoping for anything about Lenovo, they’ve gone down and down the shitter ever since they “split” from IBM.
No I don’t own a framework nor plan to do so, I’m just an average IT guy who is forced to choose between Lenovo and Mac to work, and after the third garbage laptop in a row bit the bullet and got the Mac. I also own an x200 and a t430 that i was in love with - nothing to do with the present day latrines masquerading as computers.
Screw Lenovo really. Hope for some decent competition to framework (I hope for that too, they are currently the only ones in that niche) but don’t hope for it from them.
Pretty much same here - I kept an x230 alive until I had to accept earlier this year that it just is bad for overall productivity, and ended up getting a macbook. None of the newer thinkpads are good - and they’re still one of the less bad manufacturers.
There’s also enough stuff I don’t like about the mac - but the current keyboard is one of the better notebook keyboards available right now, and if you want long battery life, lots of RAM and a lot of CPU power available in a compact device they’re the only manufacturer currently offering that.
Heh, if you think Lenovo is bad and mac vs Lenovo is a bad choice to have to make…
…what do you put forth as the shining beacon of laptop mfgs? Cos it ain’t Dell, and it sure isn’t HP.
Who else is there?
Apple and wait for Asahi Linux to finish their driver support 🫠 don’t know what to tell you man.
I have never tried framework laptops - maybe they’re glorious, maybe they’re junk - but of all the laptops I tried Apple are the only decent ones hardware-wise (and software-wise too if you like osx).
I don’t know who else makes decent laptops nowadays, but Lenovo isn’t it, and most likely won’t be.
My T16 is fantastic. I wish it were more moddable, but it’s an amazing machine. Extremely quiet and powerful, I love the 16:10 screen. They keyboard is amazing too. Framework also has 16:10 screens and they’re more moddable, but I doubt their keyboards are any good. And as a profitable company they should pay people for advertising and data collection.
Lenovo is a lot more hit and miss than it used to. My T14 heaven has Linux bugs with the trackpad.
Or even better have a laptop that can be built from multiple brand parts. I want framework to be a standard.
I think the program specifically targets the people that are an active user of framework AND actively attend those events anyway. So being paid by framework doesn’t change whether that person goes to an event or not. That makes a certain sense IMHO since if you are only attending if being paid to do so, then you are not a volunteer.
I don’t have a Framework Laptop, can I still apply?
Our ambassadors need to be active users and owners of Framework Laptop(s)
That’s pathetic. In place of financial compensation, the least they could do is to give Framework notebooks away. Doesn’t even have to be a gift right away. There could be strings attached. “On loan first but you can keep it after X amount of time.”
Maybe they could at least establish a way of tipping people who help solve issues.
