The one and only thing keeping me on Chrome… well, Ungoogled Chromium… is the webassembly performance which is just abysmal in comparison on Firefox, sadly.
I’ll just side load it. Fuck you Google
Laughs in Librewolf
I honestly can’t wait to see how this plays out. Only Chrome, chromium and edge in their pure forms have dedicated to doing this. Most of the Chrome forks have said they’re going to fork and keep it running. It’s certainly going to give Firefox a shot in the arm, but there’s no lack of other competition either.
I guess it’s a good thing I’m on Firefox now instead of Chrome.
Proprietary software sucks, use an open source browser like Librewolf.
Glad I’ve finally migrated to firefox…
What im scared if of publishers taking this as a reason to simply start banning Firefox and other browsers.
The modern Internet is completely unusable without an ad blocker. Way to remake ie6, Google!
Firefox my beloved.
Anyone else been having issues of not being able to load YouTube videos past the first few seconds on Firefox using ublock? I couldn’t find any recent information online. I don’t know if this is part of the war on ad blockers, or unrelated.
I watched several videos today on Firefox with ublock origin and no issues. Haven’t run into issues with ads yet.
Yeah, yesterday. I just kept refreshing. FF + unlock + not signed in, seems to trigger it
It’s been a side effect of the server side ads apparently, but reloading the page fixes it for me.
Librewolf, my beloved.
❤
This is the first I’ve heard of LibreWolf. Is it compatible with Windows 7? And also, why is it good?
A summary from its site and known technical details:
- no telemetry by default
- includes uBlock Origin
- has sane privacy-respecting defaults
- prepackages arkenfox user.js
- relatively well-maintained fork of Firefox that keeps up with upstream
- No major controversies AFAIK
As for Windows 7, nobody should really need to install Librewolf anyway on such a device. No device running Windows 7 should have access to the internet at this point. If you are asking about compatibility intending this use case, you have bigger problems to worry about than your choice of browser. If you just need to view HTML files graphically, even Internet Explorer or an older firefox ESR will do.
Main features: … Continued support for NPAPI plugins like Silverlight, Adobe Flash and Java
Picture this in your minds eye: a Windows 7 machine running a browser with still working Flash and Java plugins, connected to the internet in 2024.
what do you see?
i see a flourishing ecosystem of worms, viruses and rootkits, all trying to be the one species to get to be the one who does the most damage to the prey species, the common user.
Librewolf is a fork of firefox that removes bloat and telemetry. You can “harden” firefox to do the same thing, but librewolf comes out of the box hardened.
By the way, If you’re on win7 and don’t want to upgrade, Linux Mint might be a good alternative. It looks and feels similar but isn’t a security risk to connect to the internet.
You really shouldn’t connect windows 7 to the internet.
At least link the full article and not just the headline… smh. Here is also the follow-up article with comments from Firefox’s CTO. https://www.heise.de/en/news/Firefox-defends-itself-Everything-done-right-just-poorly-communicated-9802546.html
Yeah I’m using Fennec, which doesn’t have that. But as long as it’s a flick of a switch to disable, I don’t really mind. Still a million times better than manifest v3.
If you use a DNS solutions you can block all the telemetry shit. Frankly FF has been phoning home in a lot of undesirable ways for many years even before this, like most browsers.
Firefox is no longer an adversary to Google for the browser market, if it ever was. FF has become a vassal of Google that with its tyranny is dictating the course of the internet, such as WEI that as far as I know it was abandoned at least for now.
🧐
Not entirely true.
You’re overreacting. Firefox knows their users. I am a huge “stan” for Firefox, but I will delete it like a time traveller if they make it impossible to ignore ads. I will salt the earth and poop on Firefox’s grave and actively avoid it everywhere… However. If I’m wrong, there will be a Next Thing…
Besides the fact that Mozilla sucks, Firefox is an amazing piece of software. It’s PITA that it’s about to be enshittified.
Saying this about any corporation’s product is guaranteed not to age well.
I’m grateful for FF, but they also annoy me at times. Just little stuff probably not worth bitching about in detail. But also a peek at the potential for problems that you’re talking about.
So of course I’ll bitch about it.
I call it the “stop whatever you think you’d rather do right now and pay attention to our product” type shit.
Imagine you have a combination wrench and whenever you take it out of the toolbox it starts yammering at you about how great of a wrench it is and all if its shiny features. Fucking ridiculous, right?
So why do we tolerate software that does that?
Way too much software does this pushy shit. Just stay outta my face and do your actual job, software.
We’re so fucking used to ads we don’t even always realize we’re getting pushed propaganda
Because people have the attention span of a goldfish and if you aren’t reminding them every 5 seconds of the features they have available they’ll forget they do in fact use them and then complain to support because they can’t spend 5 seconds on the help page.
I say this, not in defense of mozilla, but in frustration at having to deal daily with these kinds of issues. You can put giant screen-size arrows on where to go / what single “do the thing” button to press and people will still forget 5 seconds later.
Good point. That’s true, there is definitely that side of it. I think what you’re talking about is less obnoxious than the stuff that feels forced and make-the-boss-happy promotional. Push notifcations for no reason, etc. It’s a spectrum from necessary to uneccessary, and there’s too much of the latter IMO.
Mmm mmm mmm, Bill Cosby tells me to love my puddin’ pops!
…i feel sleepy…
Yeah, it’s strange just how readily the blinders go up wherever Mozilla is concerned. They’re a corp, just like any other; if they had the money and leverage, they’d be just as aggressive as Google. Have people already forgotten that time they laid off 200+ employees and then gave all the execs bonuses?
You forgot to also mention that they are a cult where you get attacked if you say anything negative about Mozilla.
Looking around, I don’t think that’s true. Lots of bad things are freely said about Mozilla and the people running it.
You forgot to not shill for an actual corporation
I’m not shilling for anyone. If you want to discuss actual technical details I’m happy to do so. If you’re here just to share your feelings absent facts then I don’t care what you have to say.
“this is way safer for users” may as well be feelings. It’s not backed up by anything but a clear boner for Google
It is literally explained in the first part of the uBOL GitHub page:
https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-home#description
It’s like you haven’t even done the most basic research that anyone with anything useful to say would do. Why?
But they haven’t threatened to undercut ad blocking yet, so as a comparison they are better.
Absolutely, but Mozilla is pretty much owned by Google anyway, and falling in love with these companies as wide eyed fanboys never looks good when they eventually turn.
It’s okay to like them while they do good and then change your mind when they turn evil.
I wouldn’t say “owned”, but the rest… yeah:-(
It is open source so not really a corporation’s product.
They just maintain it, and the moment they screw up, a fork will take over from there.
Chromium (Google Chrome’s base) is also open source.
And yet, we’re still at a corporation’s mercy as to whether everything Chromium-based gets ruined by Google’s fuck-what-the-users-want policies. Like with Manifest V3. And JXL support. And extensions on mobile.
Users do want MV3. The people complaining about it are in the minority.
Users don’t know what the fuck Manifest is period. They just click the internet button. And for the longest time that meant the E with a loop around it. Now that means the multicolored circle.
Users know that they want more security. MV3 makes a major of users that use Chrome safer from malicious extensions.
I get what you’re saying, but the average person has no idea what it is, why they should care, or anything about it. All they see is Google making their extensions stop working. And when that includes some of the most popular extensions, that directly affect Googles revenue, they’re going to think that’s the reason.
The overwhelming majority of users get their extensions from the Chrome Web Store… Which Google has full control over. Users expect them to be blocking almost all malicious extensions before they’re even available to download.
Why the hell would a user want MV3?
Because it makes a majority of users that use Chrome much safer. Do you do any basic research? Do you need me to point you to the getting started guide?
It doesn’t though. An adblocker is your VERY most important tool in a good security posture. Googles playing any users who ask for MV3 for fools
the minority of people complaining about it are the only ones who know what it even is
You can easily branch off from before manifest v3, and some browsers do. The problem with manifest v3 is that most users do not care. But let’s say chromium loses its ability to use tabs, you can bet it gets rolled back before it reaches news media.
Except now you have to maintain a branch that’s missing everything after that release upstream.
And that’s exactly what is happening to some chromium-based browsers.
Yeah you can probably do periodic merge or rebase etc. But then you have the fun of merge conflicts
So is Android. So is Chromium. So is React, and Flutter. So is Java.
Open source doesn’t mean FOSS.
Open source does mean FOSS. It doesn’t mean community-oriented.
No it doesn’t. Different licenses dictate what you can and can’t do with open source software. Some are more restrictive than others. Open source simply means that the source code is freely available.
It absolutely does. Open source is not simply source-available, it means that it follows the open source definition. https://opensource.org/osd
These are maintained by corporations, but for every screw up, there are superior forks maintained by someone else.
The best forks of android are degoogled forks. The best forks of chromium are degoogled forks.
Firefox is a foundation, not a corporation. And I’m already using Fennec instead of the official release.
No. Firefox is a product. Mozilla is a corporation AND a foundation.
Sounds like another reason not to use Chrome.
I’m warning Google that Google Chrome may soon be disabled on my devices.
Until you do more than warn they don’t care.
Linux Phones and Degoogled Phones surge in response.
Unfortunately for work I may have no choice:-(. Several of our daily work products I’ve tried on Firefox without success. Those also don’t have ads.
I wish there were better alternatives. I may try out LibreWolf but I could not imagine it somehow being easier, though with enough effort put in the end result may be all that matters. Until the first update (possibly forced on the server end even if I don’t on mine) that breaks everything and I cannot do my work for the day, in which case I will absolutely go crawling back to Chrome, bc they have us by the short hairs there.:-(
My company just plain old won’t install Firefox without a good reason.
I’m stuck using chrome or edge. Once the ad block stops working on chrome, I move over.
On my work computer I don’t have admin rights but still I could install Firefox with no problems. It installed itself for local user only.
I really hate the corporate IT.
I was at a job that was slowly transitioning from a medium sized company to a larger one, initially we were allowed just install and use whatever on our machines, but gradually IT started implementing policies where if we wanted to add something it had to go through a request system and usually it would be denied.
As a software developer this was just infuriating, it would hold up work, force us to use shitty software (like Chrome and Edge) and there would often be fuck ups where installing a new version of software would require removal of the old one and installation of a new one - which would trigger the approval process again.
Like - I get it - some people can’t be trusted, but we were some of the key devs for the companies product, we know what we’re doing.
I was rather happy to leave that part of the company behind when I left.
My company just plain old won’t install Firefox without a good reason.
If you have other potential employers in mind, the IT environment at your current employer and other potential employers is maybe one factor to keep in mind in making decisions as to where to work.
There are some IT policies that are no-gos for me at potential employers. I ask during the interview process.
Use chrome only where you need it.
I went through the same thing with MSIE. Corporate mandates and stuff. Businesses are sometimes wrong.
No, they are always right! (Especially when they are wrong…)
It already is on mine, no trace of chromium or it’s forks.
Discord, slack, bitwarden, steam, Microsoft teams, visual studio code, balena etcher . Anyone else know of any electron apps or heavily modified version of chrome?😄
https://github.com/gamingdoom/datcord
Works like a charm.
Discord bitwarden steam and teams all work fine for me in ff, i don’t use the others
Teams has switched to Microsoft’s own edition of the same concept, “Edge WebView2”. Now that Edge is just being Chrome wearing a rubber Scooby Doo mask, I don’t expect the differences are vast.
Another fun iteration is Plex’s desktop client, which uses QtWebEngine… however surprise! still the Chromium engine underneath.
Signal’s desktop app is plain old Electron though.
Of the ones on your list, worth noting that Discord and Slack work fine with FirefoxPWA.
Holy shit I had not heard of Firefox PWA but I will use the shit out of this
I use the shit out of Firefox PWA. I just wish Mozilla would get off their asses and make it work out of the box vs having to install a third party app.
I do wish there were more native apps but alternatives to electron is always a good thing in my book.
Except for Microsoft, Microsoft can stop pretending their solution is demonstrably different from electron and chromium.
What pisses me off is how many websites don’t work right with Firefox now. There’s been several times where I’ve had issues with a site functioning on Firefox and had to switch to a chromium browser.
I was recently trying to add tickets from ticketbastard to Google wallet to be able to use them offline. I have chrome disabled on my phone. Surprise surprise it doesn’t work with any other browser except chrome. The ticketbastard app just throws an error and nothing happens. Took me a lot of searching to realize it was because chrome was disabled.
I read that most sites work just fine if you spoof your user agent to windows and standard chrome
That’s what I do and I haven’t had a problem since.
This breaks any site that uses CloudFlare’s Turnstile for me. It will loop forever and never let me through if my user agent is set to Chrome.
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The point was that some sites neglect to develop for Firefox, and simply tell Firefox users to get chrome instead. Meanwhile Firefox works in most cases perfectly fine without any doing on the website’s part if it is simply duped into believing that the firefox user is just a plain old chrome user as expected. Doesn’t work for everything, but almost.
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This happens very rarely, but it does happen from time to time. When a website starts acting weird out of nowhere I keep a copy of Chrome installed just for that use and then promptly return to Firefox.
My insurance site (MyCigna) started working a couple months ago, but for years it failed to log in. It’s those types of contracted apps that seem to fail the most for me, like apps you’d see on a company intranet.
I didn’t ever have trouble with that site and always used it in ff
Such as?
The only problem I run into is sites that use Bluetooth or USB APIs to talk to a local device. Both Firefox and Safari don’t implement them due to security concerns.
I have a friend who sends me tiktoks that refuse to load with firefox on my phone. I consider it a blessing
Libredirect extension will redirect to public proxitok instances so you could watch them without going to tiktoks site directly
proxitok is such a good name holy shit
I see this FUD all the time but nobody ever gives examples. Can you point to some specific sites that don’t work with Firefox?
Start page
TradingView
I use this every day with Firefox and Librefox with no issues.
It happens to me with some payments stores. Always need to go back to chromium based pos browser
Bambulab store
Dev tools were borked on FF for me. Entire tab was blank
I have issues with twitch. Given I only watch every 3 months for the POE announcement live stream, I just open brave for that one site. I have not tried to figure out if it’s my setup or not
I’ve been watching Twitch on Firefox for years without an issue, so it’s very likely that the issue is on your end.
dialog boxes will just fuck off. I’ve never gotten webRTC to work properly, though that might be configuration skill issues, and or webRTC implementation skill issues, since it seems to only work on browser, not across two different ones.
I’ve seen sites just load asinine layouts, borked kerning, completely fucked text handling. Just goofy shit.
In some cases i’ve seen sites have no download buttons on firefox. I don’t know why, it’s confused me a few times though.
The local Uber eats clone here has the submit order button off screen. Reuters on Android sometimes has the top bar of the webpage shift down over the content. A video conferencing site used by my medical provider won’t connect the video. The 3rd party comment section on our local news site sometimes lays out the controls off screen. The Lemmy PWA on Android used to crash on startup (recently fixed yay!!)
FF is my daily driver and 99% of things work fine, but I’ve definitely found a few sites where they clearly didn’t test it. I still have Chrome installed for those rare occasions I need it.
And I don’t even necessarily blame Firefox for this. I used to do web dev back in the day and I remember making my shit work across multiple browsers. Maybe Firefox is doing it right and Chrome is doing it wrong, but everybody targeted Chrome because it has a zillion percent of the market.
T-mobile would be the last specific one. I couldn’t navigate to certain pages within to make plan adjustments.
It’s not FUD but there’s usually more to it than just “Firefox”. Usually has something to do with security plugins. There are sites that do not work properly with Ublock or Noscript installed, even when you turn them off for the site. I’ve experienced it many, many times. It happens to me most often ordering food, because a lot of local restaurants sites are janky as fuck, but I’ve also had issues with more well known sites. Southwest airlines has been problematic for a couple years now. My credit union also had issues with parts of their online banking app, but that thankfully got fixed after a year or two.
TL;DR - it’s a real thing.
Microsoft teams
Pizza hut
Most of my utilities online sites
Duolingo
I was worried about this when I originally switched from Chrome to Firefox earlier this year but I can honestly say I haven’t found a single site that I personally use that I had to go back to Chrome for. Any issues I had with any site were related to ad blocking using uBlock or DNS based blocking I also do.
Costco Travel login page never loads for me in Firefox. Specific sites my kids use for school don’t work either. I wouldn’t say it happens regularly, but often enough to be annoying.
Walmart.com didn’t work for me on FF for about a week, and it did work on edge and chrome (still broken on FF when I disabled all my add ons). However, they fixed it and it works now. I think it was just a problem with the build of the website, and wasn’t intentional because it definitely works now.
I think that’s what’s more likely - temp problems that could affect any browser until their web dev fixes it. Not anything malicious like intentionally blocking a browser.
And then, it’s just Walmart. It’s nothing that really mattered.
The payment provider my local council uses doesn’t work on Firefox, or Safari. I have to use shitty chrome on my phone. I refuse to install it on my computer.
Report it on https://webcompat.com/
I just read about this extension today. Seems interesting. The description says It’s supposedly doing more than just switching the UA.
Does this happen in you work environment or on your private managed system? I raise this question because I started to realize that governing firefox apparently is a hard task. Never did I experience a faulty site on my private desktop devices but on my work stations. Im currently running firefox 115.13.0esr.
My home system. I’m not doing any extra security on it, either.
You shouldn’t be required to do so. You also neglected my presumption. Thank you for replying.
I only have Chrome installed for the rare occasion where a site doesn’t work in Firefox. I feel like we’ve gone a bit backwards as of lately in building websites that are browser agnostic.
Yeah, we saw this coming. When Manifest v3 first talked about.
Google an ad company are killing ab blockers. Yeah, that sounds right.
MV3 doesn’t kill ad blockers. uBOL (uBlock Origin Lite) blocks ads, is by the same author and uses MV3. The issue is MV2 made it way too easy for malicious browser extensions to do bad things, like read the content of every page you visit. MV3 makes it much harder for malicious browser extensions to do these things, but makes it harder to do things like intercept network requests.
Some of these “features” that classic uBO used are available in MV3 but requires different permissions. Some of them could also be implemented with native messaging. The main uBO author though feels slighted by Google and went on a trash talking campaign against Google, and to be fair had a few good points. Anyway, most people on social media now care more about how Chromium and Firefox makes them feel now irregardless of facts. They think their emotions somehow are the same as facts.
And yet the likelihood of Google publishing a malicious extension is quite low. Not sure why you’re so adamant about defending their shitty anti-adblock actions, making excuses for a mega corporation.
Apple, Microsoft, Google, Steam, Arch Linux, NixOS, Flathub, etc. all end up publishing malicious software in their stores and package managers. It is inevitable. If you’re not worried about sandboxing then you might as well proxy all your traffic using third party software.
From my understanding, MV3 kills vital features of ad-blockers in that
- Some filtering rules do rely on the ability to read the content of the webpage, which can’t be migrated, per the FAQ linked in the article
- The declarative API means an update to the rules requires an update to the plugin itself, which might get delayed by the reviewing process, causing the blocker to lag behind the tracker. It might not be able to recover as quickly as uBO in the recent YouTube catch-up round.
The issue is MV2 made it way too easy for malicious browser extensions to do bad things, like read the content of every page you visit. MV3 makes it much harder for malicious browser extensions to do these things, but makes it harder to do things like intercept network requests.
Then allow a savvy user to choose to keep MV2 mode via an opt-in control instead of depreciating years of hard work by non-malicious extension authors. uBlock Origin is, in fact, the ONLY browser extension I use in Chrome, as Firefox is my main browser.
I agree they should have tried to find more ways to keep the old behavior. MV3 rollout has already been delayed for a long time, and now users merely get a message. I’m not sure that the community (mostly Google contributors) won’t give in or try to find a way to keep MV2. However, what was done with MV2 can now be done with MV3 with native messaging or other network tools… I think the concern is that allowing an exception makes it much easier for a malicious extension or software to get users to agree not realizing what they’re agreeing to. Furthermore, the declarative approach is actually preferable by many. You get most of the same features without exposing all your traffic to an extension.
killing ab blockers
I might finally get a six-pack!
Google an ad company are killing
ab blockersChrome browsers. Yeah, that sounds right.FTFY
I wish, but I don’t see it happening. Most people are just content with seeing ads absolutely everywhere, I just don’t get it.
I wouldn’t mind the basic shit like a banner here or a side bar there. But the fucking obnoxious mid page ads, auto playing videos, scam link shit can go die in a hole.
I wouldn’t mind the basic shit like a banner here or a side bar there.
Since those are semi-regularly vectors for malware now, even those are not safe to allow.
I used to not mind them, now I do. They over did it and I can’t go back. I will block ads untill I can’t and then I’ll probably climb a clock tower with an Uzi.
I won’t really climb a clock tower with an Uzi.
Daily plug for Cromite: https://github.com/uazo/cromite
Chrome, but it doesn’t suck, doesn’t track you, and it has good, fast native adblock.
Also in some linux repos now. I know its in CachyOS. And it’s on Android, too.
Have they committed to maintaining manifest V2 into the future?
Not sure about that, but the built in adblock and privacy featurres won’t be killed by V3.
Safari is ok too…
If only it was also available on Linux. I really like using it on my Mac.
Apple Products get flak in these parts
Safari is trash. Especially on iOS.
