Especially when those 2nd, 3rd, + properties are being used as passive short term rentals. Observing the state of the housing situation “Hmm there aren’t enough homes for normal families to each have a chance, I should turn this extra property of mine into a vacation rental.” does this make said person a POS?
Yeah, a second house for traveling workers or seasonal migrants is fine, bit luxury but fine, but renting them out is where you’re starting to be a dick.
I hope you are aware that people exist who can’t afford home ownership, and rental is their only option. If nobody owns a rental house for them to occupy, they have no chance of living in a house whatsoever.
Can’t afford or simply don’t want the trouble that comes with it
Oh sure, like myself. I hate the idea of ownership. Ties you down and comes with a ton of extra bills and upkeep… I prefer the flexibility and ability to f-off if something bothers me at any given time. But that’s not the point the OP tried to make, so I didn’t even want to bring that argument :-)
I hope you realize that they only can’t afford housing because land lords create artificial scarcity.
There’s more empty units in this country than unhoused people.
Basic Supply and Demand says people ought to be paying people to take houses off their hands because they’re an oversupplied product.
Rent collectors are literally the only reason housing is unaffordable to so many right now.
Housing is unaffordable because someone has to pay the construction.
Check out this breakdown of a fairly low-end cost estimate: https://www.bankrate.com/real-estate/cost-to-build-house/#financing
Excluding land, you’re looking at about 135k USD. Land, whatever. Labor estimate is 30-50% according to the article, so let’s say around 190k (using ~40% and some rounding).
And that gives you a bare-bone structure without a lick of paint, furniture, carpets, curtains or any other interior (and exterior) decoration.
So even if you do everything by yourself on a gifted piece of land, I hope you can somehow understand that there are people out there who simply don’t have and/or qualify for a loan of >130k USD.
TL;DR: Rent collectors are
literallyfar from the only reason housing is unaffordable to so many right now.Love how ya just skipped right over the whole part where there’s more empty units than there are unhoused people to fill them.
You literally just completely ignored the actual substance of what the landlords are doing that makes housing unattainable in an oversupplied market.
Building entirely new houses is a luxury for people who’ve lucked out big, we’re talking about the supply of housing that already exists, which in numbers alone, should be providing an all time low of prices adjusted for inflation.
The “shortage” is an invented crisis to not acknowledge that we’d have no problems if we took a closer look at how much those landlord parasites actually need that fifth unit they also don’t live in.
It depends.
I think 1 home per adult is fine, for instance.
I also think some places are designed to be short term rentals and have a heavy tourist local economy.
I personally would like to tie some extra taxes to people that own more than one home.
I’m thinking of buying a property near a lakeside town. Ideally it would be a townhouse or have 2-3 separate houses or cabins on the property; one for me and my SO to live in 2/3rds of year, the others for rentals or guests.
Does that make me an asshole?
Tax multihome owners on an exponential curve.
Curve gets relaxed as the housed proportion of the population nears 100%.
No
I agree with you that it makes a person a POS, but it’s also necessary in our current system. It would take so much change to fix this.
Nah. It’s like pollution. I’m not ruining the world by driving a gasoline car when I can potentially afford a brand new EV or even better, walk 5 miles to work every day and 3 to a grocery store. It’s the companies pumping crap into the air and water at a rate per second that I can’t match in 100 lifetimes.
Cities that allow so many properties to be turned into short-term rentals are the problem. Huge companies buying up all the properties they can in an area so that they can rent them out at increased prices are the problem.
afford a brand new EV
Careful! There are people here who are redy to accuse you for poisoning the environment because your EV consumes electricity from unclean sources. As if it was your fault.
Those people are called “idiots”.
Perhaps it could be alleviated by some kind of legislation which prevents anyone other than citizens (individuals or families) from purchasing residential zoned property. I’m sure industry would find a way for incorporated entities to then count as “citizens”.
It couldn’t be limited to “citizens”. There are lots of people here legally who are not citizens. There are lots of people here not illegally that this would put on the streets and exacerbate other problems.
Also, you are correct on the corporate entities point. US Supreme Court has already made rulings that corporations have personhood. See Citizens United v. FEC. There is little reason to believe a rule limiting owners of residential property to individuals wouldn’t be twisted by the supreme court to allow the continuation of current state
And finally, there is a place for corporate-owned residential property that is then rented to individuals. Some people want to rent a house instead of buy. It’s just not nearly the number that the current market is set to accommodate. Just like there are some legitimate applications for heavy-duty, gasoline trucks; but that everyone who has one doesn’t necessarily need one.
Yes
I think the question should be: Are artificial barriers against increasing density of residential areas and other limitations on new housing ethical. The answer is no.
I’m always astonished when I read another news about housing getting even more expensive.
Block apartments, are mass produced goods. In the free market economy they have no right to appreciate in value, for the same reason your average car doesn’t - as building houses gets more profitable, the construction industry should ramp up.
Damn. Moral systems gonna depend on the economy too?
It really is the new deity!
Where? In areas with tight housing markets, maybe. In places with houses in abundance, I don’t think so.
Imo, the ethical limit is 3.
- To live in
- For additional income from rental, retirement security etc.
- A country or seaside house for weekend/summer getaway
There’s no real reason to own more property than that. If you have extra money to invest put it in actual business. Into new housing construction for example you get quite a return on that, and it doesn’t make you unethical.
If we are just putting our own ethical limit, for me it’s 2.
-
Main residence, a traditional home like house, townhome, condo, whatever, but with full service like garbage hydro ect as is standard for the area.
-
Land, sort of what you are saying a country home, but it has to be zoned as such, not just another home in someone else’s neighbourhood. So purpose built seasonal homes, or off-grid properties with an outhouse. Not somewhere most people would be comfortable living as their primary residence year round.
After that taxes should be extreme. And companies should not be able to purchase the main residence type homes. At all. Must be a person purchasing.
-
I like what Mike Lynch (famous leader of one of UKs biggest union) said during his Novara media interview… I’ll paraphrase from memory. “Back in the day, your retirement was secured with your job. You’d get a pension from your employer when you get to retirement age. Then Thatcher and Reagan happen… Now days, there’s no security, benefits or high salaries anymore. So people do whatever they need to do to secure their retirement. And if it’s buying another property, so be it.”
Quick edit: before anyone gets angry. Neither myself or him want this to continue. It’s shit and we should fight to bring back dignity to people’s careers. But until that’s sorted, I think it’s ethical to care for your own and your family’s survival.
Thanks for this. I’ve been having an internal debate myself over the ethical implications given the state of so many struggling with housing. I’m maybe 5 years out from paying off my home and have considered buying another home at that point for income as I get older. When I say income, the only reason I’m considering buying a house are exactly the reasons you listed; career instability, retirement income instability, but also medical care costs that are impossible to project in the future other than “astronomical”.
When I’m thinking of a second home income it’s so I can pay for a future hospital visit for me or my partner, not lie on a beach in the tropics. It’s maybe something for my child so they don’t have to start from zero or experience housing insecurity. It’s a relatively very privileged position compared to many in the US, but I’m not looking to gouge some poor renter, just be able to have basics in old age. Basics, however, now require relatively large amount of privilege thanks to conservatives stripping them away for 50 years.
I’m still undecided, but I appreciate the nuanced take.
There’s a lot to unpack here. My two cents are:
- progressively higher property taxes for every additional one (probably with an upper limit)
- restrictions and heavy taxes on short term rentals
- any house that’s not a permanent short term rental (with associated taxation) and has not been the object of a long term rental for some reasonable amount of time, gets forcibly put on the rental market at a government fixed rate
- heavy fines for and seizure of properties intentionally left unoccupied to artificially inflate rents
progressively higher property taxes for every additional one (probably with an upper limit)
I agree in principle but I think we should clarify whether that additional house is intended for short term rental, lomg term rental, or an additional “vacation” house. I think all 3 should have different taxation schemes.
I’d imagine those would be separate taxes. One is a property tax because you own that property, and then if you earn money from it via short or long term rentals you pay taxes on that.
I mean someone who owns 4 houses just so he can visit them throughout the year should be paying a higher rate of property tax than someone who owns 4 houses but rents out 3 of them to long term tenants. Probably more in property tax than the landlord pays in property + rental income tax.
I see what you mean, that makes sense.
You could probably sell it as an incentive thing. Rent your property, pay less property tax on it.
But I’d say the tax on rent should still be there, and be proportional to it. Since the property tax would also be dependent on the value of the property, what you say could still be true.
A lot places are making zoning laws against short term rentals, or making the permits prohibitively expensive. Where I live, there is an often repeated narrative about a “housing shortage” but the reality is the population is going down every year and apartment complexes and housing developments are spreading like rashes. Corporations are buying them up in order to control the market.
A family renting out their mom’s house that they inherited after she died because they already bought a house and don’t want to live in hers? Are they assholes for not just selling the place (likely to a corp) and investing that money in other ways? No… I don’t think so…?
I have a second home but I inherited it. It would need 100s of ks in renos to rent out. It wouldn’t bring me much money to sell it - would probably need to sell for land value only.
But - it’s a place of refuge for my family member in an emotionally abusive relationship, a friend struggling with her marriage, a crash space if anyone I love is in a rough spot. It’s brought my family together and it’s where we gather.
I don’t think this is wrong because I am using it for net positive purposes in the long term, and someone otherwise probably couldn’t use it - it would be a tear-down.
If it’s legally habitable, someone could be living there imo. Just price the rent adequately low for the value. I’m not saying it’s morally evil for you to have it, but it’s definitely a luxury.
It is likely not legally habitable. And to make it so for a renter would be beyond my current financial capabilities.
I think such questions are hard to answer in general. I would say a person living in one (small to normal sized) flat and owning + renting another isn’t worse than one person ‘occupying’ just one but bigger livingspace. If an old lady lives alone in a big house where there are sufficient rooms for 6 people+ she’s taking away as much property from the market as the small-scale landlord. Sure that’s not optimal for society but I also wouldn’t necessarily consider that unethical.
If there is a housing crisis in an area, one can argue that short time rentals are evil but also short term rentals are important to some extent. If everything becomes an AirBnb that’s obviously bad but I think there’s also a healthy amount of that. If a city or region has a lot of tourists or business travellers, they need to live somewhere and traditional hotels don’t work for everyone.
From my perspective, there must be a healthy balance of personal livingspaces to buy, for long term rent, for short term rent and commercial buildings. Regulating that healthy ratio should be a task for politicians. Unfortunately, I have to admit that government regulation is not exactly working fine in most parts of the world.
With our european housing market, that old lady or man might not even be able to move to a smaller size, even if they wanted to. Or, they might have a ton of kids and grand kids sleep overs, or kids that need to move back (happens a lot in our country) because they cannot find a place to live, so i generally try to be careful not to assume things when i don’t know details. It’s something that is basically the fault of our politicians, who could see this problem coming decades ago, but decided not to act. It’s not always the fault of people that are stuck in a house that became too big and can’t move because there just is no smaller appartment available, but the people who voted for politicians who let buildings be bought up by greedy investors. Edit to clarify my agreeing with your points
Not ethical, yes pos
