Just something MAGA-people seem to have a hard time with sometimes. Probably not as much when Americans are speaking to themselves, but as a non-American, sometimes it’s challenging to get “those people” to admit that there is indeed anything wrong with the US. As in they won’t accept a single criticism, and will loudly proclaim “America is the greatest country in the world”, while wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat, which for me pretty explicitly means America isn’t great, if it has to be made to be such again.
Without expressing an opinion on it: some people believe that it is meant to say that America was greater during times when women and minorities were more oppressed than they are now.
My own interpretation at least in 2016 was always that it was meant to say that Obama was a weak leader in terms of foreign policy and that Trump would restore America’s place in the world to be stronger. This may have been my interpretation because I am not from the US and so mainly care about it because of its foreign, not domestic, policy.
I think the reason why it’s so pervasive is that it taps into the romantic notion that things were better in the good old days, and people can overlay whatever meaning they wish.
The reality is that in the grand scheme of things, the world does get better over time. Most of human history consists of wars, plagues, famines, power struggles, authoritarian rule.
But occasionally some aspects of the world get worse, too. For example, the widespread introduction of cars was “human progress” in the sense of enabling everyone to be mobile; it led to environmental problems and degradation of quality of life for many people.
My own interpretation at least in 2016 was always that it was meant to say that Obama was a weak leader in terms of foreign policy and that Trump would restore America’s place in the world to be stronger.
That’s what the republicans tried to make people believe, because that’s more palatable to the public than the actual reason, which was that racists were mad about having a black president for 8 years who worked to make the lives of various minority groups better. It’s a zero-sum mindset and they think they suffered and got less while those ‘who don’t deserve it’ got free handouts, which has little to no basis in reality.
…yeah? And both campaigns have taken place after those dirty commie dems were in charge.
You are literally nine or ten years late.
I thought MAGA was coined when he was demonizing immigrants and campaigning on building a wall and making Mexico pay for it.
It was a racists dog whistle from the very beginning. It meant expelling the
JewsMexicans to make America White again. After 8 years of a Black president.Did people really miss this? This was like… the main focus of his campaign.
There was never anything “great” about the US - unless you believe that the world’s largest experiment in white supremacism is (somehow) “great.”
I can promise you with 100% certainty that we aren’t all white supremacists
(Paraphrasing an old comment from the Bad Site)
“Make America Great” would be a fine, if bland slogan. Everybody wants that. It’s not controversial, but also not distinctive in any way.
“Make America Greater than Ever” would be better. The implication being that we can do better, and be better. But they intentionally went with something else.
It seems to me, and as you have identified, that the “Again” is the key part of the phrase that drives the whole narrative. Here’s the kicker: by nearly every objective measure, the country is safer, richer, more equal, and has a better overall quality of life today than at any point in history[1]. The only thing that has significantly declined over the last 40-50 years is “the percentage of total societal influence held by straight white men.”
“Again” is the dog-whistle of misogyny, racism, and homophobia, wrapped up in the plausible deniability of nostalgia for an objectively worse time.
[1] There may be some room for disagreements here, primarily because of the first Trump administration and the pandemic years causing some backsliding, but this was especially true in 2016 when the slogan first really appeared, which is when it should be judged.
They actually took it from Reagan. But you could still maintain the same arguments, even though the times were a bit different. The “Again” is always a bit of a questionable part. “Make America Better” isn’t as aggressive in the goal, but it’s more honest and broad in who and what it’s referring to. I’d rather have some solid ideas than a slogan, any day.
This one is easy to explain away… If you’re ranking countries on greatness, then you put America at the top. But then unfortunate things happen, like minority presidents and gay marriage and solar panels, so that makes America not quite as great, but still far better than everyone else. But if we could roll back the clock, maybe to some time before women’s suffrage and the civil rights movement, that would make America return to the extra high standard that it’s capable of achieving.
I think an important related aspect is that the ‘unfortunate things’ that happen make it only “not quite as great” but are definitely destined to make it “the worst”. That way there’s a sense of urgency that you wouldn’t otherwise get from just “not quite as awesome as it could be, but still the best”
It’s a dog whistle for “Make slavery legal again” and “Woman into the kitchen”
Yeah, but it’s not the gotcha you think it is. The entire right-winger thing is whinging about everything being someone’s fault. Particularly de gubmit. Even in cases when they are in a majority in said “gubmit” at the time, and have been for nigh on a decade.
Point is, you are implicitly giving these cretins too much credit in the rhetoric they use. It’s not meant to make sense. It’s meant to rile up rednecks/whatever-other-relevant-stereotype.
Oh no, I’m not giving them credit, I know they aren’t up for actual logic. I’m just trying to strike up conversation on Lemmy with random brainfarts.
It’s just funny when you start talking to some of these people, and they’re used to arguing domestic opposition, blaming other Americans. So when someone non-American starts talking to them, their nationalism flares up and suddenly all the things that were shit due to the dems is not shit but glorious great, flawless America. I know it’s overused as an expression, but dem fucking mental gymnastics are baffling.
Industrial strength cognitive dissonance, the only thing involving cognition they’re good at at all.
Yes, actually. Hell, lemmy will tell you that rent is sky high, wages are too low, theres not enough workers rights, just everything is fucked.
The MAGA solution is just different than the left wing solution.
The MAGA solution is just different than the left wing solution.
So different that it in no way, shape, or form solves anything.
The MAGA solution is just different than the left wing solution.
Lol! What “left wing” solution?
“Starting conversations” and “bringing awareness”
You know, by posting shitty memes on the internet
Removed by mod
Does that actually work in real life? Just blundering into any conversation without the foggiest idea what it is you are actually talking about?
A ton exist, my friend. Ideas abound. Implementation is the challenge.
A ton exist, my friend. Ideas abound.
Such as?
It also means that it once was great but it also completely abdicates any responsibility for defining when that great period was in our timeline?
Was it great in the 50s when institutional racism was the law and a black girl going to college was justification for rolling out the national guard?
Was it great in the 70s when we were fighting in Vietnam for literally no reason?
Like what time period are they talking about?
Maybe they mean in the late 40s when we were rolling off the high of winning world war II? And the great majority of men had died to the point where wage inflation made even moderately capable men comparatively wealthy to today’s standard?
Is make America great again really just a code to try to start and win world war III so that 20% of all males in America would die and therefore the surviving 80% would have more luxuries given to them by default?
Reminds me of this No, you weren’t “born in the wrong decade”
Is make America great again really just a code to try to start and win world war III so that 20% of all males in America would die and therefore the surviving 80% would have more luxuries given to them by default?
Well, me being 40, without any military experience, I have no reason to think I’d ever be in the 20%. So by this logic, I would recieve more luxeries in my life.
That being said, fuck that.
You have to understand that they are not intellectually honest. They have no issues knowingly dwelling in a false narrative. The false narrative serves to normalize their movement and recruit people as they publicly repeat it unchallenged amongst each other.
Yes… that’s exactly what it means. America is in bad shape domestically and internationally.
There’s the context of Trump riding the wave of right wing rage with his claims Obama was born in Kenya. Shortly after he paid a bunch of hourly extras to form a crowd as he descended a golden escalator to launch his 2016 campaign claiming Mexico was sending rapists, and a cadre of WWE fans, white supremacists, credulous evangelicals, and reprogrammable meatbags who tuned into Fox News decided politics was interesting again.
For most of these people if you start asking which years America was great versus not great they might admit some of the Bush years were sub-par (because of those OTHER people who hate freedom), and preach about the good ol’ days when we drank water from a hose. Where everybody treated each other right, unless you were a person of color in a sundown town. They will retcon any facts you present and claim you are cancelling them and it’s no fair remembering the past, as they have been conditioned to believe faith is a virtue. The Bible’s “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” fucked up my brain for too many years of my life. I wish it was easier to fix this, but a useful quote I remember when I break off most discussions with my dad is,
If someone doesn’t value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn’t value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic? -Sam Harris
Yes
