Looks like the bots found lemmy.
The favorite excuse of colonialists: “But nonwesterners aren’t human”
Go extinct
Hey OP, you wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?
Hell, go tell a bunch of drag queens and trans people.
While you’re at it, go find some under aged girls who’ve been impregnated by adult men and tell them the Dems are just as bad as the GOP.
I’m sure it’ll resonate with all of them /s
Are you one of those? Or do you just talk over them, depriving them of their voice?
The supposed democracy advocates within the democratic party continue to refuse to fix the First-past-the-post voting system.
Dont worry, you can count on them to point out all the flaws of the voting system during the midterm while doing nothing to fix it before or afterwards.
Trump was inevitable under such conditions. If you capture one (or more) political parties in a two party system, clearly you can undo every single check and balance. Wake up blue MAGA, your continued use of the FPTP crutch is a national security threat and will cause the nation to crumble.
Was it worth it keeping those safe blue states? Was it worth the easy elections against the worst of us all?
America last, party over country at all costs.
Electoral Reform Videos
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems
So much focus on the lever that nobody is trying to derail or cut power to the trolly
This thread is being targeted by a lot of no-content “correct the record” fediverse accounts, upvoting pro-genocide US democratic party and Israeli talking points. Please report them so we can ban them ASAP.
Thank you to all the posters below doing great work debunking them.
Your opinion is not shared by all, which should be obvious.
I’m here for the comments 🍿
Yeah, both sides are the same. One would have continued benefits for the poor while the other is using ICE as a WMD and protecting pedos. Really identical when you think about it.
Which one is which?
The Trump term has literally seen a truce to the genocide in Palestine. This isn’t an endorsement of Trump, he’s a fascist piece of shit, but to those constantly bickering about genocide being worse under Trump, where are you now?!
What truce? There was a cease fire that lasted a couple of days in Gaza. No one actually believes he ended the war. Israel is still happily bombing children over the last few days.
Trump has purposefully made the genocide in Ukraine far worse by holding back defensive weapons for months. How many thousands of Ukrainian civilians needlessly died at the hands of Trump that didn’t need to die? The battle line should be much closer to Russia and immovable but Trump likes Putin so that didn’t happen.
“Genocide in Ukraine” imagine believing this 🤡
The War there is only noteworthy regarding its LOW number of civilian casualties. If you want to look at genocides look at Gaza, look at Sudan, look at Yemen.
No one actually believes he ended the war
There is no war, there is an ongoing genocide of Palestinians by the settler colony of Israel.
And yes, the genocide very much didn’t end unfortunately, and it won’t end until Isntreal is driven out of the region. But it has been ameliorated. By all accounts, dem supporters constantly were ranting about how “not voting for Kamala worsens the genocide”, and this is, factually, not what we’re seeing.
Trump has purposefully made the genocide in Ukraine far worse
There isn’t genocide in Ukraine, there is an inter-imperialist war going on in Ukraine. Using the label “genocide” to every conflict is very harmful to people like Palestinians who are actively being starved en-masse and kept out of reach of basic medicine, healthcare and even fucking drinking water.
There isn’t genocide in Ukraine
When Russia started relocating Ukrainian children into Russian families, that made it a coordinated effort to eliminate a people, which makes it a genocide.
After 2 years of insisting, Ukraine provided list of 339 names of missing children of which 161 were found living with parents in Germany. The entire “kidnapped children” take is pure atrocity propaganda.
On the other side, in 2014-2022 Ukraine killed 15000 people in Donbas and forced millions more to migrate. THIS is considtent with UN definition of genocide.
Most of the claims of relocation of Ukrainian children to Russian families come from the government of Ukraine, not from independent investigative journalism. The Ukrainian government has obvious reasons to do this atrocity propaganda. The Russian government itself justified the start of the war on similar grounds, arguing that Russian ethnics in eastern Ukraine were being genocided by Ukraine through forced Ukrainization and the banning of Russian language. I don’t take the Russian government seriously when it makes such claims because I haven’t seen much independent journalism confirming it, I apply the same reasoning to the claim of Ukrainian children being kidnapped en-masse and forcibly Russified.
As far as I know, there are only a handful of independently confirmed cases of Ukrainian children being sent to adoptive families in Russia, and most children evacuated by the Russian military have been returned to their families in Ukraine. There aren’t many cases of either because, as you may expect, in an attrition war in which the movements of the frontline are slow, there are very few children near the frontlines.
“There isn’t a genocide in Ukraine.”
This is a Russian misinformation talking point.
- children being stolen and russified
- Putin himself stating Ukraine is not a real country and Ukrainians are not a real culture of people.
- Targeting civilians (hospitals, schools, retirement homes).
- Multiple instances of massacres like Bucha where hundreds of civilians and prisoners were executed. Not accidentally bombed. They were bound and executed.
ICC has issued an arrest warrant for Putin himself for the abduction of Ukrainian children.
Some of the countries that have officially labeled Russia’s brutal invasion as a genocide include Ireland, Iceland, France, and Canada.
Some of the countries that have officially labeled Russia’s brutal invasion as a genocide include [list of geopolitical enemies of Russia]
France can’t even fucking recognize the state of Palestine until like a week ago, and now they’re authorities in genocide? Fuck them.
As for your points list:
#1 goes mostly from claims by the Ukrainian government. It is true that Russia has extracted children from the warzone and it is true that in some cases these children have been sent to adoptive families in Russia, which I heavily condemn, but it’s not a generalized thing and most confirmed extracted children have been returned eventually. The official numbers by the Ukrainian government aren’t confirmed by any investigative journalism and the invaded Ukrainian state has obvious motivations to claim abduction of Ukrainian children and violations of human rights. The Russian government makes similar claims of forced de-Russification of ethnic Russians in Donbas to justify its invasion of Ukraine, which I hope you don’t take seriously because it’s obviously state propaganda.
#2 A statement doesn’t make a genocide.
#3 Civilian deaths in the Ukrainian war, by any metric you want to use, are contained compared to any imperialist war carried out by the west. Civilian death ratio in the unlawful and horrifying invasion of Iraq was comparably much higher and it wasn’t a genocide in my opinion (probably not in yours either). However horrifying the invasion of Ukraine is, it responds to patterns of war between nations, not of genocide attempts against a population.
#4 Isolated instances of war crimes don’t imply a generalized intent to massacre civilians of a given ethnicity. War crimes are horrible and the perpetrators should be brought to justice, but again, the scale you bring of “hundreds” doesn’t respond to genocidal goals. Massacres of civilians take place in many wars (see Vietnam, Libya…) and are war crimes, but not every war crime is genocide.
Please, do not dillute the meaning of the word “genocide”. It’s meant to carry an extremely heavy connotation of attempt of total extermination of an ethnicity and culture, and throwing it around lightly is an injury to people suffering from it.
And you’re upset because you wanted it to be Harris continuing to pretend there’s no way to stop shipping weapons to Israel, or . . . .?
You’re right. They are both the same. Harris did have her own crypto coin I believe and she was a pedo’s best friend(because of the children) there for a while. I couldn’t believe it when VP Harris pressured colleges to ignore America’s past and pushed all government agencies to remove DEI and to help ensure white supremacy in all federal areas. I think she was about to challenge gay marriage and target all trans rights while alienating all of our NATO and non NATO allies with personal insults and tarrifs. Oh yeah, Harris was huge on tarrifs. I forgot how nothing would be different had blue won. Thank you for reminding me!
Hey, NATO shill, why aren’t you fighting in Ukraine? I bet there’s a conscript there that would love to change places with your chickenhawk ass.
“Let me mention a few negligeable differences like crypto and ignore all the blatant similarities which actually matter”
Those are small differences to you? Wow.
Anyway, this infighting is exactly what the shit-ass gop wants. Nice.
You advocating that people should vote for the duopoly is exactly what the duopoly wants.
Notice I didn’t say that either. Good reading skills, chump.
Ok how about the genocide in Ukraine that Trump single handedly lengthened and made far worse by stopping defensive weapons to Ukraine? The largest and most deadly conflict for Russia or Ukraine since WW2 and Trump loves the brutal murderous genocidal maniac in Moscow. 1 million casualties and hundreds of thousands of deaths with the theft of children to Russify the area… genocide.
A genocide is not when Russia kills mostly soldiers. War crimes sure, but not everything is genocide.
Also long range missiles are not “defensive weapons”
She has her ows list of atrocities to account for, but most importantly, she’s pro-israel, and pro-genocide.
I was absolutely shocked when Harris denied the outcome of the general election and encouraged a mob of her supporters to break into the capitol building in an attempt to change the result
Karl Marx said:
The relationship of the revolutionary workers’ party to the petty-bourgeois democrats is this: it cooperates with them against the party which they aim to overthrow; it opposes them wherever they wish to secure their own position.
What that means in the American system is we vote against liberals in the primaries, and we vote for them against the fascists. America doesn’t have ranked choice voting, but voting socialist in the primaries and left (out of the two candidates presented) in the generals is the closest approximation. This is the Karl Marx approved strategy, as you can see from his speech to the Communist League.
Now let’s talk about this meme. It’s fake news. There was no Alligator Auschwitz under the Democrats. Guantanamo Bay wasn’t a concentration camp for immigrants under the Democrats. I submit that the Democrats are at least 1% better than the Republicans, and that this proves the meme is fake news. And if anyone replies to this comment and says well 1% isn’t good enough, I’m going to accuse you of moving the goalposts, because this meme says colour is the only difference. The meme doesn’t say 1% less people get run over by the trolley, and I think there are at least 1% fewer state caused deaths under the Democrats.
No, you vote in a way that gives you power. Voting blue no matter who loses power. See 2020.
What that means in the American system is we vote against liberals in the primaries, and we vote for them against the fascists.
The democrats are also funding this genocide:
There was no Alligator Auschwitz under the Democrats.
The democrats expanded these immigrant prison camps. Some stats from the Obama era:
- Deported over 3M immigrants during his presidency, 2 Deported over 400k people in 2012 alone. Helped grow ICE, and the US mass immigrant detention system.
- In the present day, ICE (U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement), the police tasked with immigration enforcement, operates over 500 prison camps, holding over 34,000 undocumented people deemed “aliens”, 20,000 of which have no criminal convictions, in the US system of immigration detention. The camps include forced labor (often with contracts from private companies), poor conditions, lack of rights (since the undocumented aren’t considered citizens), and forced deportations, often splitting up families. Detainees are often held for a year without trial, with antiquated court procedures pushing back court dates for months, encouraging many to accept immediate deportation in the hopes of being able to return faster than the court can reach a decision, but forfeiting legal status, in a cruel system of coercion. After the creation of DHS and ICE, the budget for immigration enforcement doubled from $6.2 billion in 2002 to $12.5 billion in 2006 under Obama. 1, 2,3
Guantanamo Bay wasn’t a concentration camp for immigrants under the Democrats.
The democrats didn’t close their torture camp in Cuba either.
If you go to university and do any kind of field that involves essay writing, you’ll learn to use a thesis statement to summarise your argument so people know what you’re arguing for. You’ve provided some evidence, but it’s entirely unclear what your position is in this conversation other than “the democrats do bad things sometimes”. If your entire position is “the democrats do bad things sometimes”, then great job! We’re all very proud of you for proving the democrats do bad things sometimes. Now go do your fucking job developing the Lemmy software, because this software is full of issues and the grownups are talking about important issues that actually have a point.
Now go do your fucking job developing the Lemmy software, because this software is full of issues and the grownups are talking about important issues that actually have a point.
Leaving this comment up to show the titanic levels of entitlement and arrogance from the anti-communist crowd.
Even open source devs only exist to do free labor for them, we’re not people to them.
- Deported over 3M immigrants during his presidency, 2 Deported over 400k people in 2012 alone. Helped grow ICE, and the US mass immigrant detention system.
With democrats at the (wheel?). Its the same trolley, the same track and the same people on it.
But they mostly abide by a legal speed limit and in general go much slower.
Sometimes they get to a full stopt and get out to clear some people manually to get back going.
The gop sees this and cries out that these slow speed limits are the problem. Go fast, get there quicker.
Neither party wants to talk seriously about where we’re going.
Neither wants to stop.
in general go much slower
Tell that to Palestinians, the truce has been implemented famously not during democrat rule.
Israel has been violating the truce non-stop.
They never had any intention on ending the genocide, and Trump and the rest of the GOP never had any intention of brokering a real truce.
You’re a fucking idiot. Get off X and join those of us living in reality for a change
Come back down to planet earth my man.
What are you talking about? How is the genocide under Trump any worse than it was during Democrats??
Yep. C’mon back down.
I for one am able to sum the accumulated damage between the two choices. Sucks not being able to think systemically I guess.
The only reason there is a “truce” is cause the Trump regime causes so much chaos they think they can get away with a hypernormalized fake truce.
Also Trump does not care one bit about what happens in reality as long as he believes that people believe him to be successful. Towards BN he is nothing but a useful fool.
Most media channels are happy to stop reporting about this cause it was getting old but the war and famine are going on unchanged.
The only reason there is a “truce” is cause the Trump regime causes so much chaos they think they can get away with a hypernormalized fake truce
So an amelioration of genocide is insufficient to you? Good, it’s insufficient to me too, that’s why I suggest voting against democrats too
Can you explain you reasoning because It just sounds like you fell for hypernormalization big time.
Just to make things clear. The Genocide is still ongoing. Trump won last time and the biggest difference it made is a classic trick got deployed to manage public perception of what the media thinks is going on.
I repeat voting against democracts does not remove any of the issues, we are just more Frequently gaslighted against forming resistanc under Trump
The best strategy to move away from capitalism with the least bloodshed is to have people need to vote democrat during elections and then instantaneously organize mass protest against them after they win.
How are we more gaslighted against resistance with Trump? People are mobilizing in much higher numbers now, and they were quite literally shutting their ears during the Kamala campaign not to hear the names of genocide victims.
Lol, didn’t the news report that israël didn’t even try to stop killing gazan ?
By all metrics, the genocide has slowed down in scope. It’s obviously insufficient and the genocide truly won’t be over until the settler colonial entity is driven out of the region, but what we are seeing isn’t a worsening of the genocide due to Trump as libs predicted.
Shit none of them talk about where theyre at. The bleeding edge of late stage capitalism.
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one. You vote for the candidate that only wants to build only one concentration camp. Sure, both candidates are really bad, but one is considerably worse.
Therefore, we must still vote for the lesser of two evils. Not voting at all because both sides bad is how democracy dies, especially when democracy itself is under attack right now.
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one. You vote for the candidate that only wants to build only one concentration camp.
Well it’s a good thing that we didn’t have that binary choice then. My ballot had a few options, some of them even opposing concentration camps, so I got to vote against them.
I would vote a third party if it doesn’t just help the right win. If only we had ranked choice voting instead of the electrol college, then we could crub the 2 party system. Unfortunately, in the US, it’s either red team or blue team because until you can change the hearts and minds of millions of people, then it’s always going to be one of them.
because until you can change the hearts and minds of millions of people, then it’s always going to be one of them.
You’re admitting to being one of the millions of people that votes and therefore legitimises the construction of concentration camps.
You’re a fascist.
I mean, I believe nixus was talking about voting third party, which here in America is just another way of abstaining to vote. The concentration camp example was just to point out that to say one bad candidate against an objectively worse candidate doesn’t automatically mean they’re both equally as bad. I regret using concentration camps as an example though. Perhaps a better example would be if you had the choice of voting for either Benito Mussolini or Bill Clinton. Both candidates are bad, but if I vote for one of them, am I in the wrong to make sure Mussolini doesn’t win by voting for Bill Clinton?
The concentration camps are a perfect example. No one’s saying both sides are the exact same. They’re saying they both serve US imperialism. Case and point: one side wants 5 concentration camps, the other thinks that’s a little too much and we should settle for 1.
If you want to build concentration camps you’re a fascist. If you’re okay with a party wanting to build concentration camps or can look past it you’re a fascist. You wouldn’t accept someone in the 1930s saying “yeah what the nazis are doing with the Jews is bad but have you seen their treatment of animals? I’ll vote for them but I’m no Nazi.”
So, what do you suggest I do then as an alternative to voting in this scenario? I suppose I could spill the blood of the politicians that want to build concentration camps, but once again unless I change the minds of millions of people and start a full blown civil war, then the bloodshed will be pointless. I could also move away from America, but that’s assuming I could even afford to do that let alone be able to do it legally. The only power I have as an American citizen as of now is to vote. That’s the only power I have. Protesting will eventually just get me arrested or murdered once Trump completes his power grab.
You have more power than just voting every 4 years lmao. Get organised and start interacting with like minded people and get other people on your side. Every 4 years there’s 1540 days where you could be fighting fascism and you’re only doing it for 1.
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one
So you support China in their liberation of Tibet from feudal serfdom? You support the Soviet Union destroying Nazism despite the excesses made in the gulag years? Or do you only extend this courtesy to capitalist imperialist regimes?
Obviously not. I don’t support building concentration camps in general, and China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq. Admittedly, the example I gave was a bit on the extreme side. Regardless, I still disagree that if both sides are bad then they automatically are equalivent and thus voting is pointless as the meme seems to imply.
If Harris had won the 2024 election, do you honestly think she would be mass deporting immigrants without a trial, starting a trade war with China, attempt to cut funding for FEMA, etc? Sure, I’ll give you that she would have been content with the genocide in Gaza and would have been propping up the capitalist status quo. However, is that truly equilvent to what Trump has done in just his first year of his second term?
Your willingness to only engage in lesser-evilism with western genocidal regimes is very telling.
Sadly, western genocide will happen REGARDLESS of who I vote for, yeah. So, what do you propose I do about it other than protest and likely get arrested by ICE in a couple years for it? Attempt to sail aid to the people in Gaza and die along with them? I suppose it would preferable than live in a fascist America, but I have people who need me alive as of now.
I suggest you don’t engage in lesser evilism with the west if you’re not willing to do with with geopolitics. Or if you’re willing to do it, then supoort China in the international geopolitics.
China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq
There are eight opposing parties in China
Huh, I actually didn’t know that, point taken. I didn’t know China had elections in general
No investigation, no right to speak.
If Harris had won the 2024 election, do you honestly think she would be mass deporting immigrants without a trial, starting a trade war with China, attempt to cut funding for FEMA, etc?
Of course, look at her predecessor. Obama massively increased ICE, deportations, and did a pivot to asia.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the senate controlled by the right? Wasn’t it them that pushed for mass deportations?
I suppose you do have a point though, Harris wouldn’t need to be the only one who wins to make an actual difference, even if she would have just upheld the status quo that led to the rise in fascism. Still would have preferred that over what Trump is doing atm
The US is not and has never been a democracy
Oh, you’re right. My mistake. I guess I’ll just stop voting or even protesting then :/
You get told you’re wrong and immediately throw your toys out the pram
More so pointing out how silly it is. If the US wasn’t a democracy, then why vote? If they’re referring to the electrol college or lobbying, then yeah, I don’t support those and think it’s anti-democratic. We’d be in agreement.
Even strict dictatorships have elections to gauge how much support they have. They’re limited in how far they can go before spawning a revolution. Just because votes aren’t capable of inacting actual change against the ruling class’s interests doesn’t mean it isn’t useful. By voting for a third party you’re showing solidarity with the movement and demonstrating how the current system is a sham. By voting for the system you only legitimise it and give the rulers the excuse to say they’re acting legally and with the will of the people.
If the US wasn’t a democracy, then why vote?
It’s wild how people can look at sham elections where both parties serve the same oligarchs in other countries, but then think the biggest oligarchy there is, America, is somehow built different.
But do you mean "then why do people vote, or why should people vote? Cause the answer varies
Please do stop protesting. I don’t want white supremacists protesting against the destruction of the usa empire, I want them behind bars.
Yeah! Let’s all vote mauve! That’s an option right? Teal? Aquamarine? So many choices!
In Poland last election saw 17 parties and 43 independents in sejm, but all of them are neoliberal fash ghouls.
Furthermore: how many different parties are in the EU? How many EU countries are rising GDP expenditure in military to 5%? Democracy under capitalism is an illusion
You can only choose the flavours they “allow”
typical ml both sides disingenuous dumbassery
You think ICE SA thugs would be roaming the streets with impunity if Kamala had won?
¨Between 2009 and 2016, the Barack Obama administration oversaw the deporting of a record 2.4 million undocumented immigrants who had entered the United States, earning him the nickname “Deporter-In-Chief” by Janet Murguía, the president of National Council of La Raza. According to ICE data, about 40% of those deported by ICE in 2015 had no criminal conviction, while a majority of those convicted were guilty of minor charges. Statistics of record deportations were partly due to a change in how deportations were counted that began during the Bush administration and continued under the Obama administration.¨.
Guys you need to understand that Americans are only capable to see what is front of them. If happens in front of them is nasty stuff but if is under the radar? Is alright (Unless is a evil foreign country, they don’t need to see anything to believe they are evil)
Yes.
well, even idiots can have opinions
Hey blue fascist, who built the camps?
Tankies love Trump
You don’t give a shit about anyone but yourself
Well I voted for it to be green
And Trump thanks you for your vote
They are both bad, but the concept of equivilence is mind-numbingly stupid.
I legitimately think even Eric Trump is smarter than the people who believe this.
