Not when you ruin someone else’s life. It seems you do not realise how severe the consequences are. Perhaps also stuck as a 13 yo?
At 15 you’re not a kid anymore. You already know consequences are a thing. You just haven’t had to deal with em cuz yer still treated with the kiddie gloves. At 15 you are deemed responsible enough to be placed in charge of other kids. You are deemed responsible enough to start partaking in traffic. You are expected to know the consequences of your actions.
But yeah, sure, let’s keep treating em like kids. And then remove the gloves on that magical day they turn 18.
we are literally talking about an image that was made out of thin air, the description of “ruining someones life” is fucking absurd considering the very real alternative in this case.
Well no. It’s a gradual process. Just like growing up. You don’t suddenly shoot to your full height or grow a full set of tits. At 12 you start with small responsibilities, they increase in severity/importance as the kid grows up. At 15 kids are usually mature enough to take on heavier responsibilities such as babysitting, starting to learn how to drive, etc.
It seems the majority of you didn’t learn anything. Lives are being irrevocably damaged and you’re going: oh boys will be boys, just let them have their fun.
Failure to heavily oppose actions like this is you helping raise the next Andrew Taint loving generation. GG
You don’t mature all at once, but you also cannot place general expectation of responsibility at certain ages either, such as when it is acceptable to babysit or drive. That is entirely dependent on the individual kids’ upbringing.
Kids at 15 are not mature enough to do anything. That should be anyone’s expectations of a child they don’t know.
Heavy punishent will only put more kids in jail. It will not prevent kids from making irreversible mistakes, nor will it undo any of the damage. You just ruin one more life, because in the end, the people who most need to consider the consequences are the parents, and a lot of parents simply are not going to do this. So then what? Kids with shitty upbringings deserve no second chances? I believe they do.
The human mind doesn’t even really fully mature until your mid 20s. A 15 year old still has a good full decade until full maturity, and they are notorious for making impulsive decisions without realizing the consequences of their actions.
What he did was wrong and he deserves punishment, but ruining his life too for being a dumb teenager does nothing for the unimaginable harm caused to this girl, it just makes more victims.
I don’t know what the right answer is, but I can tell you the wrong answer is to ruin a teenagers life over a stupid act when that isn’t going to solve anything.
Punishment should be a deterrent. Not an even trade. Your line of thinking is what gets us free rape passes for sports jocks “cuz they have so much potential”.
one of the main reasons people try to treat minors differently than adults is because they recognize that retributive justice is literally giving up on the person and doing the easiest thing for society to deal with them.
especially in cases that involve minors there’s a push for restorative, transformational and participatory justice models because they don’t give up and fall back on treating the person like an animal.
A kid was arrested, but released pending further investigation, so I’m hard pressed to believe there is no punishment for this. But we’re talking about teenagers here, the fact that he could be punished is there, but was not given serious consideration if any at all…because he isn’t a fully mature adult. So what would a more serious punishment do?
This is something probably solved with education rather than more punishment.
Education has its limits. The kid needs to want to learn, to change.
Our MO is talking, education, conversation, non-restrictive and non-retributive. On my desk today I have:
15 yo that hasn’t been to school in 3 years. No amount of talking has had any effect.
16 yo that spread pics of his then gf among his classmates. And recently of his current gf as well, after he’s done the talking and education and supposedly gained the insight that it was wrong.
A 16 yo with boundary issues. Oh wait, no not this one. He’s been incarcerated. For stabbing a girl.
A 15 yo that loves the german army. The '38-'45 era more specifically. Today we’re gonna talk about him cheering during the holocaust museum visit.
A 16 yo that has been beating up his mom. We had to cut our talks with abuse survivor counselors short, as he was taunting them.
A 15 yo that was pushed by his friends and made a mistake. He shouldn’t be here, but it won’t hurt talking to him.
In my experience, which spans 2 decades, the softhand approach as we call it, doesn’t work as well as people like you want it to work. Sure, the other extreme doesn’t work any better and we don’t use it. But sometimes it is necessary in combination with re-education. There needs to be solid consequences, else they’ll just shrug it off.
This is one long strawmen: you’re generalizing my argument for this single situation to every situation.
You’re basically accusing me of doing what you’re doing: thinking in black and white. In my case if I think that ruining his life here with severe punishment is wrong, it must always be wrong.
Ask yourself this. Is there anyone who did something very stupid in HS that turned out to be a good adult without facing severe consequences for their actions? I can think of a few.
So we’re gonna gamble? See who turns out ok and who doesn’t? Or not even that? We’re not gonna do anything and hope they all turn out great like your few examples? Sure, go for it.
Not when you ruin someone else’s life. It seems you do not realise how severe the consequences are. Perhaps also stuck as a 13 yo?
At 15 you’re not a kid anymore. You already know consequences are a thing. You just haven’t had to deal with em cuz yer still treated with the kiddie gloves. At 15 you are deemed responsible enough to be placed in charge of other kids. You are deemed responsible enough to start partaking in traffic. You are expected to know the consequences of your actions.
But yeah, sure, let’s keep treating em like kids. And then remove the gloves on that magical day they turn 18.
we are literally talking about an image that was made out of thin air, the description of “ruining someones life” is fucking absurd considering the very real alternative in this case.
You need to pick an age as the “magical day” anyway. Not really a good argument
Well no. It’s a gradual process. Just like growing up. You don’t suddenly shoot to your full height or grow a full set of tits. At 12 you start with small responsibilities, they increase in severity/importance as the kid grows up. At 15 kids are usually mature enough to take on heavier responsibilities such as babysitting, starting to learn how to drive, etc.
It seems the majority of you didn’t learn anything. Lives are being irrevocably damaged and you’re going: oh boys will be boys, just let them have their fun.
Failure to heavily oppose actions like this is you helping raise the next Andrew Taint loving generation. GG
You don’t mature all at once, but you also cannot place general expectation of responsibility at certain ages either, such as when it is acceptable to babysit or drive. That is entirely dependent on the individual kids’ upbringing.
Kids at 15 are not mature enough to do anything. That should be anyone’s expectations of a child they don’t know.
Heavy punishent will only put more kids in jail. It will not prevent kids from making irreversible mistakes, nor will it undo any of the damage. You just ruin one more life, because in the end, the people who most need to consider the consequences are the parents, and a lot of parents simply are not going to do this. So then what? Kids with shitty upbringings deserve no second chances? I believe they do.
The human mind doesn’t even really fully mature until your mid 20s. A 15 year old still has a good full decade until full maturity, and they are notorious for making impulsive decisions without realizing the consequences of their actions.
What he did was wrong and he deserves punishment, but ruining his life too for being a dumb teenager does nothing for the unimaginable harm caused to this girl, it just makes more victims.
I don’t know what the right answer is, but I can tell you the wrong answer is to ruin a teenagers life over a stupid act when that isn’t going to solve anything.
Punishment should be a deterrent. Not an even trade. Your line of thinking is what gets us free rape passes for sports jocks “cuz they have so much potential”.
Maturity of the brain is irrelevant here.
retributive justice doesn’t work.
one of the main reasons people try to treat minors differently than adults is because they recognize that retributive justice is literally giving up on the person and doing the easiest thing for society to deal with them.
especially in cases that involve minors there’s a push for restorative, transformational and participatory justice models because they don’t give up and fall back on treating the person like an animal.
A kid was arrested, but released pending further investigation, so I’m hard pressed to believe there is no punishment for this. But we’re talking about teenagers here, the fact that he could be punished is there, but was not given serious consideration if any at all…because he isn’t a fully mature adult. So what would a more serious punishment do?
This is something probably solved with education rather than more punishment.
Education has its limits. The kid needs to want to learn, to change.
Our MO is talking, education, conversation, non-restrictive and non-retributive. On my desk today I have:
15 yo that hasn’t been to school in 3 years. No amount of talking has had any effect.
16 yo that spread pics of his then gf among his classmates. And recently of his current gf as well, after he’s done the talking and education and supposedly gained the insight that it was wrong.
A 16 yo with boundary issues. Oh wait, no not this one. He’s been incarcerated. For stabbing a girl.
A 15 yo that loves the german army. The '38-'45 era more specifically. Today we’re gonna talk about him cheering during the holocaust museum visit.
A 16 yo that has been beating up his mom. We had to cut our talks with abuse survivor counselors short, as he was taunting them.
A 15 yo that was pushed by his friends and made a mistake. He shouldn’t be here, but it won’t hurt talking to him.
In my experience, which spans 2 decades, the softhand approach as we call it, doesn’t work as well as people like you want it to work. Sure, the other extreme doesn’t work any better and we don’t use it. But sometimes it is necessary in combination with re-education. There needs to be solid consequences, else they’ll just shrug it off.
This is one long strawmen: you’re generalizing my argument for this single situation to every situation.
You’re basically accusing me of doing what you’re doing: thinking in black and white. In my case if I think that ruining his life here with severe punishment is wrong, it must always be wrong.
Ask yourself this. Is there anyone who did something very stupid in HS that turned out to be a good adult without facing severe consequences for their actions? I can think of a few.
So we’re gonna gamble? See who turns out ok and who doesn’t? Or not even that? We’re not gonna do anything and hope they all turn out great like your few examples? Sure, go for it.