I’ve been mindful of the ways companies can track my spending habits, and so have been increasingly keen on using cash and avoiding mobile banking/payment apps like the plague. I realize that this varies by country and might be a bit far out, but the thought does linger in the back of my mind. If current trends continue, how much longer until they take cash and browser-based banking from us? Or will there be a reason those options should continue to exist (and be easily usable) far into the future? And perhaps:
- What else can I, as an individual, do about this?
- Is there a tendency for larger banks or smaller credit unions to push towards mobile-only online banking?
- What does it look like in countries where cashless and mobile payments are the norm?
I’ll fucking make my own currency! (this might not be a joke)
Monero already exists and fulfills this role.
no, physical currency is way better. you can actually hold it in your fucking hand! no computers, phones or internet needed!
I wonder if physical Monero tokens are possible - something similar already exists with BTC (as far as I’m aware, since I don’t use crypto at all)
With blackjack, and hookers?
To be fair - it’s peoples own fault, that they take away cash. They don’t use them, because they are lazy…
Just like they took away horses because they were too lazy not to ride to work.
Cash needs to exist because we need the anonymity, But nothing else about it is convenient whatsoever. We’re actually safer leaving banks and leaving work on a Friday because of it. And check washing was honestly just bullshit It never should have went down that way.
We need to be anonymous, we need to have something that we can privately exchange, we need it for allowance for kids, we need it to pay when the digital service is down, we need it when we travel, so that there’s never any problems with paying for what we get, we need it to give to homeless, to live beside the banking system alone and so forth…
We need to be anonymous,
Super agree
we need to have something that we can privately exchange,
Can’t complain there
we need it for allowance for kids,
Nah, Our kids have a starter debit visa, Everything they want to buy is online (or is cheaper online) We were just handing them cash so they could hand it back to us so they could use our CC# then we got to make change. This is one thing that’s much better digitally IMO.
we need it to pay when the digital service is down,
I mostly agree. There are a lot of places that can’t even use their POS if the digital service is down. We also don’t stock cash our drawers to the levels we used to.
we need it when we travel, so that there’s never any problems with paying for what we get.
I find using CC while traveling to be far easier, but the stupid intl fees suck. Thing is, even if you get cash out on the other end, you still pay an intl charge. And then you’re stuck with whatever you don’t spend in that currency. I think overall, digital wins here.
we need it to give to homeless,
Kinda agree. I’d rather the local government use my tax money to help them. They’re already struggling from the number of people out there that don’t carry cash.
to live beside the banking system alone and so forth…
Yeah, we do need a secondary method. I wish we could create a crypto system that isn’t an elaborate pyramid scheme.
There’s always barter. The vast majority of human beings that have ever lived never once handled currency of any kind.
Bartering is a replacement for currency. There is no anthropological evidence of bartering existing before the introduction of currency. You would think somewhere there would be, but there’s not.
True. But gift economies aren’t really something that can just be implemented by individuals living in a modern state. That requires an entire society to be organized around it. Barter can.
Yeah, except that most people are lazy and will default to whatever is most convinient, even if it goes against their best interest. People use social media services that creates entire psychological profiles on them simple because they friends are on it.
Well yeah you don’t need currency when value is based on physical stuff Catan style. I make brick, I trade for milk.
But when you have a trade that doesn’t make physical goods or doesn’t involve the stuff you have to barter you’ll need a do-good coupon that everyone agrees to represents value.
Economies that worked without cash still had debt.
Debt and obligation do not require money, but they do require people that will give you the things you need in exchange for “I’ll owe you one.”
- Split your purchases into ones that you are comfortable on record and uncomfortable on record (having a blank record is anomalous and may get highlighted) - a good tactic is to use cash only for certain goods like alcohol.
- Depends on nation. In North America it seems that cash will be with us for the foreseeable future due to situations where digital payments are not accepted or cannot be accepted (legal marijuana dispensaries, pop-up restaurants or food trucks that don’t work with credit cards, person to person sales that no one wants on their taxes, and so on). That doesn’t apply to every location, so maybe do some research about the spending habits in your nation, and see if there’s ways around tracing (such as using paypal or virtual cards to abstract purchases online).
- In my area (NA), cashless and mobile payments are largely the norm, but they co-exist with other methods because of accessibility - not all communities are banked, and not all people have smartphones with NFC and access to credit. So we kind of have a buyer’s market right now.
I’m not Scandinavian or live there, I think they are possibly the most cashless countries today. I’m in Japan where we just moved away from fax machines for banking and cash is very much alive and well. So I don’t have any specific experience to share, just general thoughts.
how much longer until they take cash and browser-based banking from us?
I would question the framing here. I don’t think “the man” will come in and “take it from us.” The move towards digital money and online banking isn’t so much prescribed by a dark cabal than it is driven by convenience. If the majority of people didn’t find anything useful about it, they would not adapt these things like tap to pay or online banking.
Bartering wasn’t made immediately illegal when currency came in. Currency was made to make bartering easier and more fairly divisible. Things changed at a glacial pace to get to our modern economy.
Banks and credit unions do have an incentive to get you to do your banking online. They can close all their locations except for ATMs and get you to do your in-person interactions with a central video call center. That saves them labor costs and they like that.
And security agencies and the revenue service like people spending digital, traceable money. It cuts out the gray area where under the table shenanigans take place.
As far as a push to online banking is concerned, there are a few factors that overlap. The aforementioned labor cost issue for the banks. A lack of legislation or regulations to provide banking that is accessible to preferably all people online. And then there is competing regulations to make it safe for people to use. And with that you run into the issue that you need the two biggest mobile OS’s to get you access via the web or the app that does all. This is where we need to lobby our political leaders and the stance should be: don’t leave grandma in the lurch. We have more old people than young ones in most western countries, old people vote in higher numbers, let’s frame a way to preserve online banking in the most privacy-friendly manner around how an octogenarian should be able to use it safely. I think this is how you cover most bases with a good chance of success, even in the pre-authoritarian US. That should include browser-based banking and authentication means that don’t only depend on Google and Apple.
As far as cash or concerned there will come a point where governments and central banks just throw their hands in the air and say: it’s too expensive to keep printing and then maintaining the money in physical form. That’s it, we go digital, damn a possible apocalypse and the fact that when we do we will be absolutely hosed when that happens. And, realistically, even if we retained physical money during the apocalypse, the economy would still collapse. Wars have shown us that money is quickly replaced by barter of cigarettes, booze, and other desirable or necessary goods. So you’re “only” left with the privacy and liberty considerations to spend cash without anyone keeping a constant ledger. And I fear they will be drowned out by “hey, we can stamp out all drug trafficking” promises. Not realizing that like most rivers finding the sea most drug traffic participants will find a way in the new digital only system as well. And that gives me hope. I think we will see physical cash disappear this century. But at the same pace, people will find ways to avoid being tracked.
What can you do? Keeping your fingers crossed, become politically engaged with parties who want to protect old people in an online banking world, and vote for politicians who want to preserve cash. Just know that your best funded co campaigners will be the mob and tax dodgers.
Bartering wasn’t made immediately illegal when currency came in. Currency was made to make bartering easier and more fairly divisible.
I pointed this out above, but I think it’s worth repeating: bartering did not exist before currency, or at least there’s no anthropological evidence suggesting it did. People barter when they are used to currency, but don’t have access to any.
Maybe barter is the wrong word in this instance. I mean rudimentary, handshake trade within an equally rudimentary community. Farmer A has wheat, hunter B shot two deer. A agrees to give half a blurb of wheat to B for 2 blorbs worth of prime venison. Both make it through the winter. That’s what I meant.
As much as I despise what it represents, I believe that if physical currency ceases to exist, some virtual unregulated stand in (such as cryptocurrency) would take place to fill the same role for unmonitored transactions.
Let’s call a spade a spade - individuals, organizations, businesses and corrupt officials all want to have a way to have their “special transactions” away from prying eyes, and should one medium be phased out, another shall form, with even less purview from the governments that once issued the currency. That’s too much power to give up.
I think the future will surprise us with a new method of digital obfuscation other than bitcoin et al. Crypto is a bit tainted. We can only look at the tools we have available today to make a guess about the future. My belief is that we will come up with something new, something else that isn’t as speculative and volatile. People don’t want their bribes to be devalued because some people found their long forgotten hard drives with crypto wallets and eff up the exchange rate.
I didn’t see any english articles about that, bit just recently it made the rounds in german speaking news outlets that cash is very well trackable. Thanks to the individual serial number on every euro bill, the can track you from the ATM to the bar. And banks, big supermarkets etc. already do it. There is even a German company selling this data.
More information (unfortunately in german): https://netzpolitik.org/2025/bargeld-tracking-du-hast-ueberwachungsinstrumente-im-portemonnaie/
The gang discovers money laundering
Why the fuck can’t I just buy shit in peace anymore.
NO.
LINE MUST ALWAYS GO UP.
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The situation is dire in the UK. Surveillance up and about everywhere — it never stops. It seems like none of the politicians actually listen to anyone other than the GCHQ experts!
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Oneday they will find a reason why its necessary for the greater good.
- Use privacy respecting cryptocurrencies for exchanges. This can be done between two individuals or at businesses, especially small businesses.
- Yes, it seems like they’re doing it on a consensus level in the UK. This is because consumers would rather use banking apps because it is convenient for them.
- In the UK it is very common to use a card and contactless payment. It’s very concerning because this trend is bringing the government to trace UK bank accounts to prevent “fraud”. Which could target people on benefits for instance. Many are worried that benefits claimants will have their application scrutinized based on their spending habits. Disability rights is now becoming a political conversation about how and where they spend their money, which is mortifying.
Monero has the good aspects of cash, such as anonymity, but in digital form, so you can still send it anywhere around the world at the push of a button.
If we go by the WEF, then certainly before 2030.
At least in Canada, friends at the bank I used to work in IT were briefed in 2024 that CBDCs were coming down the pipe at some point in the future.
