Google has been trying to make Android proprietary for a few years now, and that’s not news, as many AOSP default apps have been abandoned over time in favor of proprietary Google ones. This was never a huge problem for me, as you can still use those apps without network access or use open source alternatives like Fossify on a custom ROM.
However, the situation is quickly getting worse, now that Google is actively trying to prevent the development of custom ROMs and taking a page from Apple’s book by forcing developers to beg them for permission to release apps on the Android platform, even outside of the Play Store - giving Google full control.
Is there still any hope left for privacy respecting Android ROMs? What do you think will happen next? And what would be your suggestions for those looking for a phone in 2025?
If you have a different perspective on the situation, also please comment below!
Linux phone will hopefully become realistic thing.
But the more this goes on the more my attitude has changed. I now do far less on my phone, I’m more careful about what I expose to it. As a result I spend very little time on it and that’s been great.
To be clear I hate what’s happening, it’s just been working out to improve my time.
I’ve always wanted to try one of these.
yeah i can see this kinda thing becoming the resistance by the looks of it. i’m already wondering to myself if it could be practical to use something like this with postmarket or aosp.
i wonder if i could make it thinner and more ergonomic if i desoldered unused io.
Things are fine for now, but long term Google will force out FOSS third parties. Linux phones get better every day, though. I imagine Linux will be relatively ready for primetime by the time Graphene can no longer continue.
I have seen no examples of a Linux os that is even close to being usable for daily smartphone needs and progress is laughable in most cases. What are you seeing that makes you think it’s an option for anyone but the most stubborn of users?
I’m not saying it is currently ready, I’ve never used a Linux phone. I’m just saying it will probably be fine in a decade or whenever Google manages to choke out Graphene and such on the Android side.
GrapheneOS still intends to support all the supported devices until EOL. The sideloading change doesn’t affect them. It won’t apply to GrapheneOS. It only applies to certified OSes and GrapheneOS is not certified because it doesn’t license Google Mobile Services. As per the rip out of the device trees for Pixels, that just makes Pixels like other phones. GrapheneOS has been able to expand it’s automation to build that device support themselves. For new devices, making the support will take longer than it did in the past though, but they will still support those Pixels, as long as they meet the hardware requirements and still allow third-party OS support with all security features intact. Besides that GrapheneOS is actively talking with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them reach the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about that.
Android is Linux of course since the Android kernel is a Linux kernel. I’m aware you are probablly referring to using traditional Linux OSes that are typically used on desktops on mobile phones. That would, however, be a significant regression for security. Android and iOS are both modern mobile OSes with an in-depth security model which includes a mandatory app sandbox with a sane permission model. This is not present on traditional desktop OSes. This is not meant to diss on those OSes, they are just children of their time, they were created much earlier, security practices have evolved. I can see why it would be a fun experience though to tinker with, it would just not be a secure experience and it’s unlikely to get there because the improvements in traditional Linux distros go much slower than they go on Android and Android is already massively ahead.
Things are fine for now
famous call to inaction that brought us to the shitty situation we face today
What specific action would have precluded Google from no longer open sourcing Android drivers for the reference device and locking down their app situation in response to the anti-trust ruling? Please enlighten me.
right now? nothing because they already have a practigal monopoly… due, in great part, by the “it’s not so bad” crowd who continue to tolerate shitty corpo behaviour until “oh shit, it’really bad now”
How would a more panicked attitude remove Google’s ownership from the OS they own? I am confused.
it’s not panicked, it’s just a rejection of monopolistic practices… but you illustrate my point fantasticly by equating consumer rejection to panick… can’t escape consumerism, eh?
I’m afraid not.
This is America. We don’t do privacy and consumer rights. You will freely give all your data to a tech company where you are the product up for sale.
This is the internet, not America
There’s no hope for privacy at all as long as American and the 5 eyes exist.
I was thinking this. With advances in text recognition, they can potentially filter all that data now. Since five eyes is essentially for industrial espionage, google first requiring access to source code to ensure compatibility, and that you can’t really turn off chrome web page sniffing (I have found the disabled chrome app still running, with “force stop” available,) all this makes more sense than the little bit they’d squeeze out of ad revenue chasing people who avoid chrome and google assistant. After all, it isn’t bad actors or people who already buy from google they are spending so much effort on - it is the tech competent.
Fuck it, I’m going back to Landline
Weary traveler, I beseeth thee to not harken down this path.
I hear tales of dark spirits haunting those old byways. Ones of greed, with an emotionless façade, and hunger for gold from too-eager souls.
Do tell. I heard it is just VoIP. I guess there is surveillance there too?
I was more referring to telemarketers. Lol. I don’t use landlines anymore for that reason. I’ve thought about it from time to time, but then I hear about the experiences of other people who still have them, and apparently it’s just a telemarketer cesspool at this point.
It’s more expensive than you think, and it’ll probably be VoIP even if you get it from a “normal” phone company
At this point, I’m just hoping to grab a HarmonyOS phone soon. I’d rather have China hoovering up my data than the US, 5 &14-Eyes, and fascist US tech corporation. Terrible compromise, but I don’t see an inexpensive Linux phone on the horizon any time soon.
Issue is whether you can even use it outside of China because of the wireless band difference. I had a Fairphone in Canada that suddenly stopped connecting to the network.
It doesn’t have to be one or the other, it is still possible to live without a smartphone (for now).
In order to obtain and maintain a visa where I live, I am now actually required to maintain a mobile phone number. You are correct, I could live without a mobile phone, but I’d really miss the GPS.
Until substantially more people join the fight for privacy or something else fundamentally changes, I think there is a very real possibility of Google completely clamping down on Android while governments and workplaces mandate apps that only run on phones with all of Google or Apple’s bells and whistles.
But the folks at GrapheneOS, Calyx, and Murena seem to be a devoted and resourceful bunch, so I am hopeful that they can give something for us to work with, even if Google pulls the plug, whether it’s a fork of Android or rebasing to mobile Linux.
If that all falls through, I’ll look for whichever phone supports Linux best and eventually move everything over. The vast majority of the apps I use regularly on my GrapheneOS phone aren’t very demanding and have a decent alternative on Linux. And whatever apps are forced on me by other people will reside on a dedicated Android phone, ideally with a removable battery.
For this year, I’d still recommend a secondhand or reseller Pixel with GrapheneOS. Everything just works on it.
we need the devs who make lineageos to come up with something, because that’s what most people have access to. and their stance is that they won’t be doing anything to bypass any of google’s restrictions.
that’s if unlocking is still a thing in the near future.
I hear good things about this.
As of right now, it’s looking like GrapheneOS will be unaffected, and Google has yet to lock down the bootloader. So this should remain a valid option for at least 2 years.
Other than that:
- Any smartphones with an unlocked bootloader + any ROMs without gapps
- Chinese smartphones with non-Google Android builds
- Linux smartphones
- Bonus: Huawei is about to release their own non-Android OS, but I wouldn’t expect it to be privacy-friendly
Honestly there probably isn’t any good, long-term solution. Personally I’m somewhat shocked we’ve gone this many years with reasonably open smartphones. Next step is probably closing bootloaders in new laptops, as part of the switch to ARM (which is already undergoing).
I’m pretty seriously considering the pinephone. I think it’s super neat there’s a LoRa module backplate you can buy with it, although my understanding is nobody has made it work with meshtastic yet.
I’m a huge fan of Pine64, but I wouldn’t expect the PinePhone to be a great replacement for an Android smartphone. Personally I have quite extensive experience with PineBook Pro, PineTime and PineBuds Pro. I haven’t had the chance to try the PinePhone, but I’d definitely go for the Pro.
Even then, prepare for a junky experience and forget about lixuries such as good camera, nice screen, smooth UI/UX. Their devices are great, and the ideas behind them more so. But unfortunately they rarely work well, perhaps with the exception of PineBuds Pro.
FYI, the Pro has been discontinued: https://pine64.org/2025/08/14/august_2025_short_update/
Hey everyone! As many have noticed, the PinePhone Pro is currently out ot stock on the Pine Store. Unfortunately we have to deliver you the following news: the PinePhone Pro is officially discontinued. We were told it didn’t sell well enough to keep production going. But the good news for current owners are that spare parts will still be made for up to two years, depending on demand. Meanwhile, the trusty PinePhone (A64) is still alive and kicking, and Pine Store plans to keep it rolling for about two more years.
Well, that sucks. So I guess the better move here would be to wait for something new? I don’t think the regular PinePhone is at all viable as a daily driver.
Depends, if it is used as a dumbphone (calls, SMS, being in sleep most of the time), it is okayish. However, going outside dumphone sphere, it becomes cumbersome to use.
Said this in another thread
So how long until celluar providers also say you have to have a trusted device to activate your SIM? Apple, Google, Samsung, automotive and Windows would be fine and they’d probably allow their branded or limited hotspots.
This would basically eliminate any Linux option (pc or phone), and DIY devices. I could see other OOB vendors getting on board to be certified to have a certificate issued to them.
with esim, this gets even easier for them to do.
Yes, absolutely.
Phones that don’t support Google play services (AKA any hardcore privacy phone) will not be directly effected by Google restricting sideloading. The restriction is only for phones that use the Google suite. (source: https://9to5google.com/2025/08/25/android-apps-developer-verification/ “This requirement applies to ‘certified Android devices’ that have Play Protect and are preloaded with Google apps.”) Graphene OS isn’t going anywhere, AOSP is open source, even if Google tried to make that change in the OS, the community would hard-fork AOSP instantly and continue like nothing ever happened.
Realistically this is going to squeeze people “in the middle” towards fully-google controlled Android (one exteme) and towards fully-de-googled Android (the other extreme). Its just elminating the middle. Which is bad for people trying to gradually de-google their life, but not as dire as it might seem.
On the bright side, this is an opportunity for play-services spoofing to become commonplace and easy, and could cause more apps to avoid google play services. The EU also has a shot at forcing google to allow sideloading, since they’ve recently been forcing Apple to move in that direction.
So, while not a bright future, its far from hopeless for privacy respecting Android phones.
This is the point, isn’t it?
Lock down their own ecosystem because they’re jealous of how Apple does it, so they can herd all users into their walled garden. Then close the gates behind them. There’s no easy way out, you can’t just wander back and forth anymore. You have to scale a wall in the dead of night and shed a tear as you look back and see everyone else having a lovely life, then set off into the dark forest of privacy on your own.
People hate friction in the first place. This is as much friction as they can realistically make on their own without triggering anti-trust cases and EU fines.
I’ll be going with Fairphone 6 + /e/os as my next phone most likely. Seems like a very decent path forward.
I’m not gonna go looking for it or share it, but I am here using my Librem 5 and kinda feeling like that kid in the meme hitting a bong in the background while people in the foreground fight.
Is all the talk about not recieving phones ordered and the poor customer service just a smear campaign or is there truth to it?
How do you like the kill switch?
What country/service are you on?
Have you heard any rumors regarding the inventory issues? They do not have US modem version of their phones in stock, even if you get the really expensive one or a refurbished option.
For context, I am probably as much of a Purism fanboy as you are likely to find…
Is all the talk about not recieving phones ordered and the poor customer service just a smear campaign or is there truth to it?
There is a lot of truth to it, but I do think there were a few very loud voices making it sound worse than it was. I got mine in June 2023, and I was one of the last people on the “preorder” list. I hear a few people mention not receiving theirs still every now and then. The cases I saw mostly came down to emails landing in Spam/Junk folders on the customers end.
But I do think Purism’s support was very lacking in past years. In recent months I have seen some new faces in their Matrix and forums and the new people are really great and responsive. I do not blame certain past Purism employees who were in the firing lane for these issues. Rather I blame Purism’s handling of the refunds for drawing up enough ire to make Purism’s support reps sound like the bad guys.
The refund thing was less than great, for sure. I feel they are improving.
How do you like the kill switch?
Love em. I wish the modem powered on faster but that is nit the fault of the switch, or really a big problem. It takes like 20-30 seconds maybe. The Wifi powers on in a few seconds.
What country/service are you on?
US, Mint Mobile. AT&T also worked for me in the past.
Have you heard any rumors regarding the inventory issues?
Hmmm, maybe? I know there was supposed to be stock of new Liberty Phone main boards this year, and there was hope they would go on sale as a sort of L5 upgrade path. This either did not happen, or Purism is waiting for something to announce it.
I don’t own any other Purism hardware, and so I do not pay much attention to the L14 stock or the Mini or anything.
Thanks so much for letting me know all that. The phones are in stock, but just not with the North American modem selections. Maybe I could contact the company and see if they will arrive soon. I makes me a bit nervous to pay so much with all the hoopla that has happened, but the big corpo stuff is driving me absolutely nuts.
If you don’t commit to anything in the coming months, it may be worth checking it out after Purism (finally :)) pushes out some much needed OS updates. If you go to their forums you’ll see people talking about Crimson and Dawn, this is that update I am referring to.
How much does the Librem 5 satisfy what you want out of a daily driver phone?
I am satisfied with it. Calls/SMS/MMS all work fine. Internet and the few apps I use work fine.
I will admit though that many (most?) others might not agree. Banking apps, GPS navigation, these are things I don’t care about.
I have gripes with the L5 but I am never, ever going back. My next phone will probably be Purism’s next phone, if they have one.
I’m stuck with Apple or android as my bank only has an app, as in, no web interface. I could change bank, but I don’t think I’d be able to. It has features that use every day that other banks here don’t have afaik
