C++ classes are fairly optional but if you’re already using cpp then it likely wasn’t your choice and neither will the choice of OOP.
Yeah, I like the sweet spot that C++ is in. It can do anything C can but then you have classes and STL and all that on top of it.
once i learned about defer it became a hard requirement. cpp kinda gives me that but other c like languages do it better.
Yeah, I wish C++ had function/scope epilogs and labeled loops/breaks, too. Those are the cases where the “never use goto” rule can be broken to make better code than adding all of the code that would be required to handle it the “right” way (setting up early exit flags and if statements after each level of nested loop to check the flag).
Objects are fine.
OOP sucks.
Inheritance starts to suck > 1 level deep. Multiple inheritance starts to suck at the point people discuss adding it to a language, or a few femtoseconds after the big bang, whichever comes first.
This has bell curve meme vibes. I’m just not sure what the middle guy would be saying.
He died of XML factory injection pattern exposure.
If only he had a briefcase of XSLTs to make sure the XML was safe first.
It would say PrototypeFilterStubFacadeBridgeDecoratorTaskRequestMapEventExporterInfoModelRequestIterator
I’m just not sure what the middle guy would be saying
“I hate inheritance! I hate inheritance! I hate inheritance! I hate inheritance!”
But well, inheritance goes brrrrrr.
We all get disappointed when we don’t inherit anything useful…just a garage full of confusion
Why Isn’t Functional Programming the Norm? – Richard Feldman
- objects and methods are just structs and procedures
- encapsulation is just modular programming
Anyone who praises FP is either a student, works primarily in academia, or otherwise never had to look at a deep stack trace in their life.
Every time a production system spits out a backtrace that’s just 15 event loop calls into a random callback, I lose 6 months life expectancy. Then I go look at the source, and the “go to definition” of my LSP never works because WHY WOULD IT, IT’S ALL FUNCTIONAL
hapi.registerCALLSI hate it I hate it I hate it I hate it. I support UBI because the people pushing functional programming in real production systems should be reassigned to gardening duties.
Removed by mod
I have the same problem with oop. 10 levels of encapsulated calls just to see you were in an overridden methods without enough data to find out which implementation it was. Ugh
I mean, bad programming sucks regardless of the “paradigm” (and vice-versa, mostly). But as someone whose job it often is to sift through production logs hunting for an issue in someone else’s component, at least I have a chance with OOP, because its behavior is normally predictable at compile time. So with the source and the backtrace I can pretty reasonably map the code path, even if the spaghetti is 300 calls deep.
Now where shit really hits the fan is OOP with dependency injection. Now I’m back to square 1 grepping through 15 libraries because my LSP has no idea where the member comes from. Ugh.
I’m not advocating one way or the other, but I would gladly take on the gardening duties :D
Just use C
It’s called Go
Excuse me if I don’t appreciate when the compiler adamantly refuses to do its job when there’s one single unused variable in the code, when it could simply ignore that variable and warn me instead.
I also don’t enjoy having to format datetime using what’s probably the most reinventing-the-wheel-y and most weirdly US-centric formatting schemes I have ever seen any programming language build into itself.
I used to think I was just a fanboy. But as time went on and I gained more and more experiences, I’ve only become all the more sure that ANSI C is the only language I ever want to write anything in.
I was the same, but I recently gave zig a try, it’s lovely to write.
Managed to segfault the compiler though, so maybe not quite ready yet.
I learnt Caml in the 90s at university, I was completely lost, in Prolog too.
Is OCaml going mainstream, hm
Its a great way to make simple code 300% bigger than necessarily.
OOP was a mistake!
OOP is nice. Why do people hate it?
Because of inheritance.
People (sometimes) use it far too much and in wrong ways.
Like inherit when you could just instantiate, or use a template.
Or when “everything should be a class” was also a bummer (inhetit “run()”), like I’d instantiate “main” twice (cool if it had worked I guess).
Or old code written by “wizards” where they cast cast cast instances onto other classes to use specific behaviour in crazily dangerous manners. And you’re the one to “fix it” because it doesn’t work well…
Otherwise OOP is good.
Just like any software design principle, it’s understood at a surface level by tons of bad developers who then try and solve every problem with that one principle. Then slightly better developers come along and say “ugh this is gross, OOP is bad!” And then they avoid the principle at all costs and tell everyone how bad it is at every opportunity.
If you ask me, the only reason for objects to exist are for preventing stale references. Anything more than this is unnecessary.
There are common traps and employer don’t spend money/time to train their devs to avoid them.
SOLID principles are pretty decent but a surprising number of people don’t do any of them
Multiple inheritance
It seriously gets in the way of just winging it.
I think the main problem is that people try to shoehorn OOP mechanics into everything, leading to code that is hard to understand. Not to mention that this is basically encouraged by companies as well, to look “futuristic”. A great example of this approach going horribly wrong is FizzBuzz Enterprise Edition.
OOP can be great to abstract complex concepts into a more human readable format, especially when it comes to states. But overall it should be used rarely, as it creates a giant code overhead, and only as far as actually needed.
I got as far as seeing they chose Java and opening the constants file, and immediately executed a strategic withdrawal. I love that people went to this level of detail
Man thanks for sharing the fizz buzz link.
Oh no, the FizzBuzz EE has evolved since I’ve last viewed it! 😱 Is it bad if it actually reminds me of my current work project’s backend (that I haven’t written) a bit?
Using classes is nice tbh. Using inheritance usually isn’t. Inheriting from inherited class should be forbidden.
Inheriting from inherited class should be forbidden.
so an interface with state?
Uh… from Caml? Because OCaml’s object support is the least surprising part of the language.
modules >>> classes, anyway.
I haven’t used TypeScript in a classically OOP way and it never felt like I was being urged to do so either.
I’ve worked on projects with 10 000+ lines or typescript and maybe 3 classes total
But you have used objects I think.
Of course, but OOP is typically about putting methods on classes, inheritance of behaviour etc.
JS Objects aren’t typically used that way, they tend to be used as pure data containers. At least, that’s how we mostly use them.
Occasionally, we’ll use objects to simplify passing multiple arguments including arrow functions, but I’d say that doesn’t really count unless the arrow function mutates the object it’s a part of.
Of course, but OOP is typically about putting methods on classes, inheritance of behaviour etc.
You’re referring to one subtype of OOP. That may be what most people mean when they say OOP, but that doesn’t make it correct. Object-oriented programming is programming with objects, which does not require inheritance or classes.
With such a broad definition you could call even Haskell an oop language
So you’re arguing that “Object oriented” shouldn’t apply to languages that are oriented around objects?
It becomes quite OOP if you use it with React
Huh? I’ve worked with TypeScript + React for the last 5yrs and the only time I see OOP is when someone’s done something wrong.
Maybe you’re thinking of old react with class based components?
Proving that adding the
classkeyword to the ECMAScript spec was a mistake that leads folks down a path they should not travel 🙃I completely agree. I taught JS/TS for 5yrs and I always emphasised that the ‘class’ keyword was just syntactic sugar for what was already available in prototype inheritance of JS.
Interfaces are great.
Inheritance is often a sign that the previous developer didn’t understand interfaces.
Broad generic claims like that tell me more
Yep. I’m old, cranky, and prone to broad statements to get reactions.
That said, for any of you all that love inheritance, I’m judging you so hard. So hard. Very judged. I probably hate your code, and your friends’ code, and your last teacher’s code. Especially your last teacher’s code.
Prefer composition over inheritance. Though that doesn’t mean inheritance has no place in programming.
Why typescript? It allows you to make typesafe compositions
