I do not want this to be a political debate nor an opportunity to post recent headlines. However, in my opinion, this administration seems to be taking actions which history suggests may lead towards a near or total economic collapse. Whether you agree with this or not is irrelevant.
This post’s question is: If one were to have a concern that they’d no longer be able to afford common household goods or that mainstream (S&P, Nasdaq) financial investments were no longer sound, what can one do to prepare for “the worst”? What actions could someone take today to minimize economic hardship in the future?
I would also like thoughtful insight from older adults to offer younger adults about how they should be better preparing themselves for an uncertain future, outside of current events or place of residence.
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Find books written about farming/saving during ww2. Get a freezer and a canner. Stock up on beans/rice/etc (long shelf life foods). Save bones from meat, boil them for 6 hours, then let fool and strain them. Can/freeze the broth (I put mine in quart freezer bags flattened out in the freezer). One quart added to 1qt water is filled with nutes for soups and such. If you have a fireplace, keep a bag of dryer lint for kindling. Buy heirloom seeds, learn how to save seeds (Whenever I grow green beans I always have 100+ dried pods in autumn as I usually only have enough to harvest 2x with any real quantity. Each dried pod has at least 4 beans). Buy things you need now that tariffs will affect the most (electronics, coffee, etc.) Start learning how to fix things yourself, get basic tools (drill, hammers, driver sets, wrenches, etc). Fix car problems now, before parts go up. If you know ANYONE still alive now from the 30s to 40s, pick their brains on what they did. Also, get books on identifying plants. Sorrel is awesome to add to food for flavor, dandelions are a good source of Vit C… my knowledge is limited, but so far that’s what I’ve tried (do NOT eat roots of dandelion).
Remember your local community is one of the most valuable resources. Get to know your neighbors, invest in your social capital.
I remember coming across post in a /r/collapse on reddit that poked fun at a lot of peoples plans. He stated he was in a war torn country and found a lot of plans revolve around personal survivorship instead of community based. And the immediate local community is the one that most people fall back on and the one that often times helps out the most.
Learn how to cook, go on some camping trips. You’ll learn a little bit of self-sufficiency and get a break from society.
Take care of your mental health. The first thing that breaks down in a disaster is usually your mental state.
Discuss your emergency plans with the people that you would be including in them. Know where you’re staying if you need to hunker down and know where you’re going if you need to leave.
At the end of the day if there’s a full economic collapse there’s not much you can do except survive and take care of yourself and those you love. A total economic collapse means your money won’t be worth anything, your investments will go to zero, and your best bartering chip is going to be food/water over a chunk of gold.
Skills are a good bartering chip. Things others can’t do, or can’t do to your abilities. A rare skill set or talent/ability will get you really far. But you have to advertise that ability. An engineer that can make a working electrical system out of car batteries and alternators will be worth more than a literal tonne of gold. Someone who can cut hair, valuable. The more you can help a community, the more accepting they’ll be of you. A biologist would be amazing.
“Yep, that’s hen of the woods, totally good to eat.”
Vs
“I mean you COULD eat that, it won’t kill you, but you’ll be seeing pink Floyd’s music”
“Never heard of pink Floyd”
“Doesn’t matter, you’ll know it if you eat that”
Vs
“If you fucking so much as touch that, I’m leaving, because you’ll start projectile shitting your internal organs”
Yeah, biologists will be super valuable.
Edit: I am not a biologist.
Buy gold. It will go up in value. When things bottom out, sell the gold. Buy back into the markets.
Note this is not financial advice. I can’t predict what the markets will do.
That might potentially work if you timed it exactly right but I’m skeptical of the idea of gold as a store of value, I think it will get hammered like every other asset class if we’re talking about the end of the US as a liberal democracy governed by the rule of law. Especially if you have actual physical gold you need to keep secured, if things get bad enough that becomes a real liability. If its not physical gold will it still be there without the US legal system to enforce your rights? I would much rather have a pile of freeze dried food than a pile of gold or a pile of GLD ETF shares if it’s actually a worse case scenario.
Think of what a bar of gold is worth. 1,000,000. That’s 25 pounds.
I don’t have that much money so for me the weight would be significantly less. That would be super easy to conceal and head some where safe. If the US fell the gold can be converted to any currency. Even if it took a year or two for another country to pick up and be a stable place to go, the gold would still be good.
So that makes gold a solid place to store the value. Go back hundreds of years people still wanted gold. Hundreds of years from now people will probably still want gold.
If it’s a serious crash but the US dollar comes back. Gold will still be a good solid place to store the value. If the US changes from dollar to something else, then gold still works.
The only question is timing the market, but to me still not a big deal since generally safe gold goes up in value.
1990 price was $383 an ounce in 2023 it was $1943 an ounce. I’d say do the math to those that doubt. And yeah timing is tough. But even if the US doesn’t fail gold goes up in price generally speaking
You’ve been downvoted but this is pretty much what my elders told me.
How old were your elders? We don’t have the gold standard anymore and gold prices are only loosely tied to the economy anymore. In a dire enough scenario, lead becomes more valuable than gold. If you’re going to try to make money off of this situation, put all of your chips on China. As we collapse, they’re right behind us. In many parts of the tech tree, they’re ahead of us already. Despite their population problem, they’re trending up while America is trending down. They’re leading the way in solar, fusion and drones. Ahead in hypersonic, hacking, manufacturing, and AI. And they’re on par in space, and I know I’m forgetting something. Oh, they’re also way ahead on worldwide public opinion at the moment. So likely to get better deals.
Literally the only advantage the US has right now is military and logistically. But if we keep alienating (ironic, right?) allies, our logistics is shot to shit. (It’s actually worse, because if we can’t supply our bases around the world, those bases are sitting ducks.) The Chinese are masters at stealing tech. What they don’t have is a navy capable of projecting power, but that’s changing quickly.
If you want to make money off the fall of America, bet on the next superpower. Which is china.
No arguments from me on China. They’re excellent at playing the long game. My elders are boomers and the greatest generation.
Alright well just forget what boomers say. American boomers had the easiest lives in human history. But the greatest generation knows struggle. Listen to them, but not on gold. Gold isn’t what it was, it’s volatile at the moment. It’ll stabilize again if the world comes to peace, but that isn’t likely.
Lol you just reminded me of what my grams said to me about why the boomers suck…
me: grams why are your kids so messed up? grams: they were raised during the US’s peak golden age. they have no basis for actual reality.
May she rest in peace. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.
I’m going to say a few things about food and also assuming prices will go up and not quite reach an economic collapse:
Secure your food, learn to prepare cheaper, more plentiful foods in a way that is tasty to you (look to rice and beans). Consider purchasing or creating emergency food reserves. Consider purchasing more canned foods which can last for years. If you have freezer space, consider vacuum sealing food to keep them for longer.
Generally, look for ways to reduce extraneous cost and rely more on yourself and your immediate community. (This will be difficult to do, no mistaking it)
As another has said, strengthen your local ties. In the event of a collapse, we’re all going to be affected in one way or another. I think the biggest thing is fostering a culture of cooperation rather the competition. That means avoid prepping, avoid emptying store shelves, avoid hoarding goods en masse in your basement or shelter.
I think a good first step would be to look for local mutual aid groups. Just Google your town or state + “mutual aid”. These groups are already out there directly servicing those most in need, and are the most ready to spring into action when a disaster strikes (here is some testimony about mutual aid group action during Hurricane Helene)
Oftentimes these groups are open to volunteers or donations and will be active during natural catastrophes, and I’d imagine economic ones as well.
Quit being poor, works 100% of the time.
As a teen we went through the collapse in the 80s when (in Canada) mortgage rates hit 21%. So Get your mortgage rate locked in now and don’t have a renewel pending in the next 2 years.
For my family in the 80s it meant most income was going to the mortgage and we had to be very frugal. We ate a lot of potatoes and beans, no restaurants ever, and no extras. My dad also hunted, left over meats went into soups.
We are currently living frugally for reasons. We buy bulk dried chick peas, kidney beans, lentils (various kinds), frozen peas, rice. We stock up on potatoes , carrots, onions and canned tomatoes. With a large selection of spices and occasionally other ingredient we can make a wide variety of dishes. Weekly grocery shop is around $35-50.
I expect for those in the USA the luxury of lavish meals will need to become more like my frugal diet.
Drop extra services…do you really need more than one streaming service, could you go without and scour the thrift store for BlueRay / DVDs , the libraries have free rentals of new releases.
Carpool. Barter between neighbours to exchange services.
Barter between neighbours to exchange services.
Facebook groups and market place is great for this.
Always go there for first. And remember in order to make this work, got to buy AND sell.
Each second hand transaction denies the parasites profit!
Don’t go to Facebook first! We need to start normalizing ways to organize outside of those giant corpo-fascist sites.
Also check out https://buynothingproject.org
Craigslist also has a free section, we have given and received on there.
Yeah thats old school. That’s where I started try to get back into the trading original but it seems now Facebook is the place tho as much as I hate Faceberg :/
Network effects strike again
Yeah my wife uses Market Place, but for me their privacy policies and data gleaning steered me away. Craigslist is still big and busy where we are in the Vancouver area. Either way it good to connect locally.
We bought 6 Eggnog oat/ soy milk on sale from grocery store. Odd taste compared to other brands, rather than return my wife put it for free on Market Place, and some family came and got it. They were so happy since it was their favourite kind.
We found a 7 foot tree for free, a retired dude was having to leave his apartment to go into longterm care. We offered him cash for it, but he wouldn’t take it. My wife took a cutting and propegated it for a while, then we dropped it off at his care home with a watering can so he can continue growing his tree. They keep in touch once in a while.
I think these moments got lost for a while with the technology boom, and people staying home being constantly entertained.
I think these moments got lost for a while with the technology boom, and people staying home being constantly entertained.
Yeah I am old enough to remember that world. Back in the day people in normal course of life were able to make social connections, now there is three fucking corpos in ever interaction and people don’t have skills to socialize.
Emigrate? …or maybe stand for office.
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I think the EU depends on your country of entry. Some countries are under much more pressure than others. Also a lot comes down to your skill set.
Also a lot comes down to your skill set.
Which country in EU is doing immigration based on skill set?
Nobody wants us any where mate.
It ain’t as easy as people think it should be lol
Best chance is finding some nice foreign person who loves you enough to get married and import you into their socialist paradise.
This tactic works better for women generally lol
Nobody wants a broke middle aged cuck haha
Mate? I’ve never heard an American say mate.
See they could fit in here in Australia already!
There’s a market for anyone but mostly cishet femmes
IMO, there are three “levels” of economic hardship:
- Severe recession: Where the economy shrinks, many small/medium businesses go bankrupt, unemployment hits around 7-10%
- Legit depression: Numerous core institutions in most or all sectors of the economy go bankrupt. Even highly skilled people cannot find work and are reduced to charity, begging, or stealing. Unemployment hits 15-25%
- Total economic collapse: All major institutions in all sectors fail, or cease having any legitimacy. The country’s currency becomes worthless due to either hyperinflation or governmental collapse. All people except the super wealthy elite, become destitute.
The last time the US experienced the second level was the Great Depression, where during the depths of the dust bowl and the depression, unemployment hit about 25%
If you genuinely think we are in for anything worse than level 2, you should flee the country now, or buy a gun and stockpile ammunition, food, and medicine.
Realistically, level 3 isn’t going to happen. Level 1 very likely will, level 2 I would give a 5% chance personally, but that is based only on vibes.
Have some savings in cash, a few hundred bucks mostly in small denominations should be alright. Don’t do more than that.
Buy cheap bulk foods. Beans, chickpeas, lentils, raw oats, rice, four, potatoes. Buy several of those big 24 packs of bottled water. Most large retailers have them for 4-6 bucks a pack. You need A least 5-6 bottles a day to stay minimally hydrated. That’s roughly 4 days of water per 24-pack. You should have at least a week of water per person.
Other folks here have good advice. Connect with a local community. If not your direct neighbors, then a group that meets nearby. You need other people for support. If you’re in a really bad place, they will be the last line of dependable aid.
Quit your vices. Cigs, alcohol, excessive caffeine, and junk food all cost a lot of money, aren’t healthy, and will make you much more vulnerable to economic upsets. It also allows others to take easier advantage of you, because of your desperation to get a fix.
Friend, you need to be a pepper!! I feel so good having extra of everything I need!
Too bad you didn’t stockpile your r’s
hahahahahaha. Fixed. But hey, nothing wrong with being a pepper too.
At first I thought you were advocating for stocking up on Dr Pepper - ,wouldn’t you like to be a pepper too’
You can’t. Ride the wave. If the market tumbles, everyone will suffer. Which is most likely what they want anyway, because a hungry population is much more easier to control.
Finance-wise, have an wmergency fund and well-diversified portfolio. This is not financial advice, and I’m not a professional, but this is what I’d do with retirement funds and personal stock accounts:
Emergency fund: if you already have this handled, then look at your investments. If you dont have an emergency fund, do everything you can to save up at least 3-6months of living expenses - ideally in a high-yield savings account to protect your money from inflation.
US stocks: Don’t be over-exposed to US stocks, especially riskier ones. Historically, bonds and foreign stocks have been recommended to balance your portfolio, but many people have ignored that in recent years due to the dominance of US large-cap stocks, especially the tech sector. Ensure you’re diversified in accordance with your risk tolerance/retirement time-horizon.
Non-US Stocks: It would be good to have a non-US ETF or index fund with developing and emerging markets. It may not perform as well, but can potentially hedge against US market volatility. The counterpoint here is that US stocks are globally interconnected enough that getting non-US stocks would overexpose you to that part of the market. Caveat emptor, do research.
Bonds: bond ETFs/funds, I-bonds (inflation protected securities, you can buy $10k per year), and automated bond ladders can give you steady returns. Remember buying bonds directly is fairly illiquid - your money will be stuck in the bond for the duration of the bond’s term.
Cash: Inflation isn’t crazy right now. Probably wouldn’t be bad to have more cash than normal sitting in high-yield accounts (earning around 4% APY right now) since the market is likely to dip. Maybe consider liquidating some investments that are riskier than you’d like. I wouldn’t really advocate trying to time the market, but also it doesn’t seem like a bad time to be a little heavier on cash imo.
Check out Boglehead 3 fund portfolios and their variations. Imo it is time to be safe and boring. If you have a long time until retirement, don’t panic - ride it out and consider rebalancing your portfolio to the standard, oft-recommended asset mixes. If your retirement timeline is short, make sure that you aren’t over-exposed to risky investments like stocks.
If we’re really going full warlord-rule society (“the worst”), names on a domestic account at some institution are worthless. Wax for the scraping. Bonds, bank accounts, stocks, all of it. Cash gets devalued by inflation. That leaves you with foreign accounts, goods, metals, crypto. #1 and #4, assuming you have electricity to access/move them.
Things won’t get to that point, most likely. Things can get really bad and still recover. If it’s an apocalyptic scenario, better invest in a stock of bullets and a bunker.
I disagree. A sated population is far easier to control. Hungry populations become desperate and have little to lose. Americans are sated and comfortable which is why we have allowed this to happen.
That’s what you would think. Like hungry people would protest or take action. But that’s not how it plays out. When everyone is so busy with getting by and staying alive, nobody cares about any atrocities committed by the higher ups. I’ve seen many countries where the people simply ignore the craziest things their governments say or do.
You’re not wrong. We are seeing that exact scenario play out right now. We can agree on one thing. We are all fucked.
A hungry population is easier to direct in violence. Tell them who the enemy is, who the reason for their problems is, and they will focus on that hatred and prejudice. Blame others for the problems.
That’s what the republicans have been doing, and they will continue to do it.
That’s the kind of control I think the commenter meant.
Right now we’re easy to control because we’re afraid to lose what we’ve got.
The french revolution has entered the chat
Build a garden if you can, join community efforts like mutual aid, and form or join a union. We are strongest together.
Do any vehicle maintenance you can now. Look up common issues for your vehicle and maybe buy those parts as they might be extra expensive due to tarrifs. If you need to you can sell them later.
Secondary used markets are going to be huge, so set aside anything you think people will want in the future. Buy an ebike just in case driving becomes too expensive. Download as much media as you think youll want because theyre trying to ban piracy sites and free options may dissapear.
The free options will still be there. Banning a few pirate sites will make it less convenient for streamers, but bittorrent isn’t dependent on those sites and tools like Tribler can find them straight off the DHT.
We’ll see hopefully they have to play whackamole and keep having to go to court and waste their time.
From my viewpoint, Trump is and will be causing social hardship much more than economic hardship.
I could possibly see a benefit in preparing for a harder times socially. Further division among neighbors might be the main casualty of this administration. Social cohesion is already struggling from his first four years.
Economically, I have no confidence in Trump’s actions overall, but I am very confident that his massive ego determines his actions, and that ego is largely held up by the performance of the stock market. He will be very careful not to take any action that will rattle the markets too much. Whenever he see a negative reaction in the markets, but pulls back, claims a moral victory and moves on to the next thing.
