if your job does not pay a livable wage without begging then maybe get another job
They (and many others) are getting paid below a living wage because that was the best job they could get. The wage problem isn’t our fellow workers failing to hustle harder, it’s systematic oppression of organized labor.
Tipping service workers is one of the very few times in our life when we can say “The people directly serving me deserve to get paid more, and while I can’t raise their wage, I can at least make sure they’re getting paid well while they serve me” and the fact that people are upset about that and actively refuse to tip is just crazy to me.
Like, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but tipping generously is one of the times when we can come pretty close! Maybe instead of having a $70 meal on the brink of a recession, have a $50 meal and tip up to the $70 that’s in your budget?
It just incentivizes being an asshole. Assholes give zero tips and get to keep more of their money, while normal people have to pay the empathy tax.
It’s sad how much flak you’re getting for this reasonable take. I’m lucky enough to be able to afford eating out a couple times a week, and I’m not scared of sharing a bit of my wealth with the neighborhood.
It’s the last bit. His first paragraph is a good outlook. Encouraging everyone to tip 25-50% is insane and stupid.
People tend to vote based on the worst part of a comment.
Please don’t put words in my mouth. When did I ever say 50%? Someone else botched their math and got to that number, and I even took the time to explain why their math was wrong. I have only told others to “tip generously”, to always include a tip in their budget while dining out, and in your specific case to tip more than 15%. Even in the offhand example I gave that you think is so insane and stupid, it only comes out to a 33% tip. The people who do the lion’s share of the actual labor deserve the lion’s share of the profits, and there’s nothing insane or stupid about that.
Right!? If you’re lucky enough to be financially secure right now, tipping can even be seen as a form of mutual aid!
Are you tipping 50%?
I aim for 25-30% tip when I get standard service and when there aren’t any comped apps/drinks/desserts. If the server is amazing or if they’re giving us free stuff, I give more. 50% is very rare for me to hit, but I did leave 50% at a family dinner a few weeks ago.
Why did you ask about 50% specifically?
Yeah, either that’s pretty dumb or you’re pretty wealthy.
A standard tip is 15%. Up to 20% is reasonable. Anything more is generosity, and should never be expected.
The thing about inflation is that 15% of a larger number is a larger number. Inflation is built in, and you don’t need to add it twice.
Not everybody can be remembered as the guy who gives good tips. That’s not how it works.
I make $1 above minimum wage in Los Angeles, so I’m wealthy in a global sense but poor in a local sense. I just live a frugal life with few expenses or vices beyond gaming and smoking, and that’s what enables me to tip generously and give to mutual aid groups. I probably eat out less often than the average American, and I don’t own a car, but I’m OK with losing those things. I am able and willing to make those sacrifices, so I do so. If you’re not able or not willing to make those sacrifices, that’s your choice, but don’t take the consequences of your choice out on the people who are on the bottom rung of society. That’s just gross.
Tipping 15% isn’t “taking your choice out” on anyone. 15% is a fine and normal tip.
Maybe it used to be decades ago when we first formed our opinions about this stuff, but times have changed since then. Rent has done nothing but go up, while the federal minimum wage has been $7.25/hour since 2009 and the federal tipped minimum wage has been $2.13/hour since 1991. That 15% you gave in 2010 was used for cigarettes and drinks after work, maybe coffee the next morning, maybe putting a little bit into savings or paying for college. Today, that 15% is used for rent. Rent and gas. Rent and gas and maybe childcare. Tipping more than 15% is our way to actually tell someone that they deserve more than just the necessities–and I don’t mean telling them with words or with comments on Lemmy, I mean telling them with action.
I can’t bring my self to encourage people to work stupid fucking jobs that pay $2.13 or whatever. Have some fucking self respect.
Anything more is generosity,
Nah bro… It’s a lie. If you were to trust the % ratio of people in these threads that are leaving 30+% tips, then the wait staff would be rolling in dough. Especially with food prices going up like they have.
This is ridiculous amount to tip. Good on you for being frivolous and not caring how much you spend, but understand that by your further escalation of tipping you are directly contributing to the businesses that are getting away with it.
Not 10 years ago, expected tipping was 10-15%. Now you’re throwing 25-30? Or 50? you realize how unstable, unrealistic and how bad a precedent that is setting?
It’s not a ridiculous amount to tip, but explaining why it’s reasonable requires an understanding of what commodity fetishism is. Are you already familiar with the term? If not, would you be willing to read a description of what it is if I typed one up for you?
No fucking way someone with an understanding of Marxist sociology supports tipping. Not a fucking chance. I’m so confused right now.
Socialist theory is great, but material conditions don’t care about our ideologies :) I use Marxism and socialism to help myself understand why I feel so alienated and to help fight those feelings, but I still understand that every worker in America lives as an exploited laborer under capitalism. I’m not wealthy or politically powerful or willing to use violence to enforce my views, so my praxis must be aimed at helping the little people until we have enough of a leftist coalition to take on the bigger issues.
Essentially, I’m not big enough to change the world for the better all on my own, but I can change the parts of it that I can reach out and touch with my hands, so why shouldn’t I?
You should, by not tipping, which will help create positive social change.
Your example is a $20 tip on a $50 bill.
$70 meal to $50 meal is a $20 difference and you said to use the difference.
I guess 40% is the actual number but it was close enough for a random internet discussion. Lol
A $50 meal has sales tax, as well. Tipping up to $70 means the server gets $15-16-- which is a 33% tip.
You are changing from a $70 meal and a $50 meal to a $50 meal rounding up to $70.
There is sales tax on the $70 meal at the same percentage.
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying
You forgot that tax would be included at the same rate on a $70 meal as a $50.
You can’t use tax as an excuse on the 50 since the 70 would have it too.
And just think, they could all get paid properly if the restaurants just included those tips in the prices instead of playing this stupid fucking tipping game
Yep! The people directly serving us deserve to get paid more, and while we can’t raise their wage, we can at least make sure they’re getting paid well while they serve us.
Yes, that would be ideal. Since that’s not currently the case at all establishments, we can take other steps.
Guy earning $2.35/hr: “It would be nice to earn enough to continue to pay for my living expenses.”
Me, a guy who just had him wait on me hand-and-foot for an hour while I sipped a coffee: “Hell no I’m not giving you $.25 more than a dollar.”
Why is your problem here that people don’t want to have to pay additional above the expected posted fee for their food?
the same argument can easily be asked, why the fuck are you supporting and allowing for restaurateurs to pay 2.35/hr?
Stop encouraging greedy bosses by subsidizing their workers for them.
Why is your problem here that people don’t want to have to pay additional above the expected posted fee for their food?
Its clearly more your problem than mine. I’m not the one getting nasty stares and bad service because I’ve stiffed the help.
The only one who is stiffing them is the restaurant owner.
why is he waiting on you hand-and-foot if all you’re doing is sipping a coffee?
Presumably because you’re guzzling it as fast as he can brew more and refill.
Someone drinking coffee like that seems to me like they’re trying to avoid tipping by going into cardiac arrest.
How can you sip and guzzle at the same time?
Practice
Something I don’t get, why is it percentage based? I mean, I get it from the waiters perspective. But as a customer? Whether my one plate of food is 20$ or 200$, he did the same thing. Scaling with more items of time spent would seem more appropriate.
Each plate of food or drink is a transaction, each with expectations of quality, and expectations on the waiter to make it right.
Make what right? They’re just bringing it to my table. If the food or service sucks I’m also told that you should tip anyway, so it seems like tipping isn’t based on quality (and really, it isn’t).
Because it’s a con, and if it were a flat rate, people would see it for the con it is. By making it a percentage of sales, you can delude people in to believing they’re going to make more in tips than they would on an hourly rate.
Sometimes that’s true, for the vast majority of servers it isn’t.
If you’re getting the same level of service at a restaurant serving $200/plate meals as you are at TGI Fridays, either you’re being ripped off of your local Fridays has amazing servers.
I see it as a sneaky incentive from management for waiters to upsell you on more sides, drinks and desserts.
Since the more marked up extras a waiter/waitress can fool people into getting, the better tip they can hope to earn at the end because of the %-based expectation.
Except nobody rips after they feel fooled. Do you ever tip when they add gratuity, or when there is a delivery charge? Or an inflation charge? Or you were billed for 3 drinks for a 2 person table? Or when we forgot to deliver soda on delivery?
No. I didn’t think so.
It has to do with a $20/plate restaurant is going to have more tables per server and less actual service/attention per table. At a $100/plate place - it’s you, you’re the only table that’s server is in charge of. If he gets no tips from you then he basically goes unpaid.
Not every meal in a “$x/plate” restaurant is gonna cost the same though. It’s not hard to reach a disparity between the cheapest and most expensive reasonable meal (similar sizes) of around a factor of 2 at many restaurants.
Why is the server getting twice the tip if I order the most expensive plate and dessert vs cheapest plate and dessert?
Well usually more people means a higher bill, more people is more work. Lots of places even just add gratuity to the bill once a group size is large enough.
But tipping is dumb, and working in the service industry sucks… I have no easy solutions.
I have no easy solutions.
There’s an easy one that could be legislated tomorrow by any states.
Raise minimum wages and enforce it throughout ALL workplaces, including wait staff. Nobody should be earning less than a living wage just because they’re restaraunt staff.
Nobody would work in a restaurant for minimum wage. Full stop. It’s a shit job.
That’s the secret nobody in the industry wants to tell you. They make way more than minimum wage on good nights. You could come away at $25-30/hr on a Friday night.
Absolutely. it’s a bad precedent.
Minimum wage staff still get tips though. I still tip here now that it’s mandatory they get paid min wage. Overall, means that they make more than before they were earning min wage as well.
it’s a big win. They ge ta living wage doing their jobs and they get bonuses in tips on top of their living wage instead of relying upon it.
Which is what workers at McDonald’s in other countries make per hour, not including benefits. Oh, and the food is cheaper than in the states too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_minimum_wage
There are exactly 0 countries on this list that are above $18 per hour. You for some reason thing that wait staff is getting 25-30…
Luxemburg and Australia are among the highest on the list…
Luxemburg…https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDonald-s-Luxembourg-Salaries-EI_IE432.0,10_IL.11,21_IM1092.htm
Australia… https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDonald-s-Sydney-Salaries-EI_IE432.0,10_IL.11,17_IM962.htmYou’re wrong or lying. Either way… doesn’t help your case.
List is a bit outdated. Minimum wage in Germany is 12,41€ not 12€. Can’t say how outdated the other entries are though. But that list still doesn’t disprove the statement above. While it could be seen as unlikely there is no rule out there that fast food employees have to make minimum wage. I wouldn’t work at a fast food place for minimum wage. I make minimum wage delivering newspapers on 2 days. I would expect a fast food employee to make more. Haven’t seen a recruitment ad recently because I don’t often go to fast food places (countable on 1 hand for a year) but I’ve seen grocery store recruitment ads for cashiers recently and they get more than minimum wage. I mean of course they do, as if someone would want to work as a cashier for exactly minimum wage
Politics is one of those things that’s easy when you say it, but much harder for you to do. But if that’s easy for you to do, then please do it, for all our sakes.
Serving a $200 meal requires a lot of knowledge and physical skill that the server down at Chili’s probably doesn’t have. The kind of restaurant that sells a $200 meal also has a larger support staff that must be given a percentage of the server’s tip
You’re the only one who gets it.
Everything is probably a la carte. You gotta know what is in every dish, what pairs with it from appetizers to sides to wine to dessert. You don’t walk out and ask “who had the cheeseburger?” because the expectation on the experience is higher. You’re controlling the timing at the table as well. When do you fire the main after they get the appetizer? Salad? Bread? Drinks? Which SIDE of the person do you give or remove plates? And yeah you gotta tip the bartender, the bussers, the expediters sometimes, and who knows who else.
It is still horseshit, but it’s not as easy as dropping a rib basket on the table.
Be mad about the tip line on the sandwich shop menu, be mad about 20% tip on the burger joint that has a modern industrial interior and a $22 burger, don’t be mad about paying out the Friday Saturday night white tablecloth servers with a tough fucking job of conducting your whole anniversary meal. You get to have a good experience once a year, they’ve got 15 other once a year meals to solve and it’s just a regular dinner shift.
I’d say you also shouldn’t be made at the server at the $22 burger place, because they’re also working hard and probably covering more tables. I used to get mad about tipping for counter service because I assumed that they were making standard minimum wage, but then I found out one of my favorite cafes was paying $5 an hour (a dollar less than tipped minimum in my state). Point is, don’t get mad at anyone but the National Restaurant Association, they’re fighting to make sure you’re subsidizing your servers wage.
What difference is there between serving a $200 meal and a $50 one?
I think you’re looking for the difference between fine dining and nouvelle cuisine / haute cuisine. Think of it like the difference between a nice steakhouse where the server essentially takes your order and gives you a plate, and one of those Instagram dinners where they serve your dessert in hollow chocolate balls and serving is a more involved and delicate process because of the nature of the food you’re serving
I have a place down the road that makes guacamole in a molcajete at the table.
That is way harder and more impressive than pouring a little hot chocolate.
If you can scam them into paying it then more power to you though.
Sounds like that server deserves a generous tip, I hope you take good care of them :)
Are number of items fixed in your question?
If so, little mechanically on the waiters part.
But, a more expensive meal comes with higher service standards. More attentive, but not intrusive. More knowledgeable about the menu. More readiness to make adjustments based on customer need.
So in that situation you are asking for a more experienced, or more skillfully employee, and that costs more.
Ah see, to me their whole job is bringing me food, keeping my drink from being empty, and not being rude.
I don’t need all the pomp, I go to a restaurant for the food.
The funny part is you are effectively paying twice for that since the restaurant has increased the price of the food to account for all the pomp.
I’d argue the skill difference matters much more in the kitchen, yet they only see a tiny percentage of the tips if they’re lucky
You’re not wrong, that’s the logic behind it. It’s not like you’re defending it so idk why you’re getting down voted! What you also didn’t mention is that at these restaurants is that it is a much more leisurely meal and experience, so there isn’t high table turnover which lessens the tips. I suspect they also have smaller sections.
$20 is like, one entree, maybe a beverage at a cheap restaurant. $200 is probably closer to 3 entrees, 2 or 3 cocktails and an app at a moderately priced restaurant. You’re crazy if you think the amount of work for those two orders (putting them into the bar/kitchen, making sure they come out correct, running them, all while juggling your other tables) is equal. I also want tipping culture to end, but the price tag scales pretty well with the amount of work being done.
Waffle House: feed a family of 4 for $20 Tip: $4 “Fancy” Restaurant: microwaved appetizer $20 Tip: $5
A percentage scales within an establishment, but not really across them.
I’d say that varies more regionally than anything else. I live in a major northeastern city, and you could barely feed 1 person for $20, even at cheap chain restaurants. Drive 2 hours away and things get a lot more affordable, not only for food prices but also rent. In that respect, 20% actually scales with cost of living as well.
It mostly bothers me when I just order 1 entree and a water. At one place that might cost $10, and at another place it might cost $30, and all the wait staff did was carry a plate from the kitchen to me in both cases.
It doesn’t seem fair that the wait staff at the more expensive place gets tipped more than the less expensive place just because of an arbitrary custom.
The extra cost of the expensive meal is mostly due to ingredients, the cooking process, the location, and maaay slightly more complicated table setting.
Yeah, I agree, but if you don’t like it, take it up with the National Restaurant Association. They spend millions every year lobbying against ending the tipped wage.
That’s insane. It’s literally the job. Imagine applying this logic to any service industry job.
It exists in the service industry. Hence the term ‘White Glove’.
You can get a mover who will throw your shit into the truck from the stairs for 1/10 the price of the guy who individually wraps every single spoon you own.
If you are are trying to find logic within tipping you might as well chase windmills. It’s dumb as bolts.
Chasing a windmill would be really easy tho.
Just don’t get chasing waterfalls though.
On the other hand rivers and lakes are so stupid.
One thing: We’re not on the verge of a recession. The right wing media needs to make things up to attack and that was one of them. I couldn’t believe all that talk, nothing happened, nothing was about to happen, but they fear mongered for months.
It’s been about a year and a half since we’ve been right on the brink of a recession.
Really? More people are living with parents much longer, pay hasn’t nearly increased with food and housing costs, fewer people are having children, interest rates shot up like 6% in a couple years, the average price of a new vehicle is now $51,000, since 2010 housing costs have shot up about 100%, debt has vastly increased, the wealth gap has straight up gone insane, and depression rates are climbing.
They’ve been putting up bandaid to try and hold it off, but the damn will collapse. The dollar menu didn’t turn into the $2.89 menu for nothing.
I personally 100% think we were on the brink of a recession and Biden dropping a trillion into the economy avoided it.
Biden should be talking up the soft landing every time he answers a question, imho. Uncle Joe saved us all a lot of pain with that.
It’s true, but it’s not a great talking point. Every time you say we’re in a good spot, you’re going to have voters who aren’t in a good spot. So then you have to couch it in talk about doing more.
You’re right in that it’s worthy of bragging about; it’s just a tricky subject.
Yeah, plus everyone knows that inflation is up under Biden, which still feels bad.
Wait until next year when they win and put us on the gold standard plan 2025
The worst is when NPCs call people NPCs.
Why not pay hospitality workers a halfway decent wage, and leave tipping for exemplary service? That’s how it works in the rest of the developed world.
“Other struggling people are not the enemy”.
Op is jeff bezos alt account.
Went to my normally favorite bar today and they updated their tipping button recommendations to “20%”, “69%”, and “100%”. The 69% was the default option which while I know they’re memeing, seemed really uncool as I nearly clicked approve without noticing.
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Planet earth’s been on the verge of a recession since 4bya. Various economists have been able to predict a recession every year since the term was invented. Stay safe
Michael Burry has successfully predicted 92 of the last 3 recessions.
“No need to worry, citizen! We have once again successfully avoided a recession by changing how a recession is defined!”
Well, are we in a recession? Because it does not seem like it for many people, not just 1%.
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How can it be a recession when the .01% is richer than ever before?
What do you mean? Corporate profits are higher than they’ve ever been!
/s in case that wasn’t obvious
Recession has a specific definition. Unless you’ve had however many quarters of negative growth or bad GDP or however the fuck economists define it then you’re not in recession.
They’ve changed the definition of recession like 5 times in the past 3 years. We’ve had numerous consecutive quarters with negative GDP growth.
Based on my quick search I’m assuming by “they” you mean the NBER and by “we” you mean the USA? It seems the rest of us have agreed on the definition being 2 quarters.
I like how i said the same thing but got downvoted lol. What is the matter with this place?
How about increasing wages to promote more consumer spending? Henry Ford-- a literal Nazi-- of all people, knew this!
Yhea f off with that tiping culture .
Keep this garbage out of europe please. i see it popping up. I will absolutely refuse to tip a single goddamn soul at this point going forward.
Every time we go to Toronto we go to the same restaurant because they don’t accept tips, they just pay their staff really well. Fantastic restaurant and I love supporting them.
If you can’t afford to tip after getting a big steak, you should probably get a smaller steak.
