I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil. How can they win back the country? Is it too late?
Most Americans like and support Trump. That IS America.
Yup, it’s the election where hate won.
Now that is something to think about… sad really
Yeah. Most people are probably experiencing the shock of what they thought the American people were vs what they are. It’s hard to understand and accept.
As foreigners, our views are heavily affected by things like Hollywood, celebrity and visibility to the “best of America”. But the bulk of America is not that, at all. So the veneer is torn away and it’s jarring to most people.
The only positive I see in all this is that we get to watch the US get what they voted for. Pain can be a teacher, but I doubt they can learn from it. Any and all agony from this will just be the other parties fault, always. Too much venom and malice in the politics and too little earnest substance.
Yup, if we learn anything we will definitely have forgotten it in four years.
They don’t. It was never their country to begin with, clearly.
The majority of the U.S. has been racist, bigoted, misogynists from the beginning. Hell, the entire electoral college system that just fucked everyone over is a compromise that was put into place because a bunch of rich white landowners in the Antebellum south couldn’t stand the idea of freed black men’s votes having as much power as theirs. So they immediately rigged the system to keep them in control of who gets power because you better believe no black man was ever going to be an elector.
That is who your country is. There was a brief period from the 60s to the 80s where it became declasse to be an asshole, and so they mostly shut up during that time when they were in public, and then went home and took out their frustration by beating their wives and kids.
Then along came the modern republican party, who began to tear down that cloak of respectability, and it emboldened all of those wife beating shit-heads to say “Hey…we can be assholes again…go us.”
This is your America. It always has been. I’m sorry if that hurts. I really am. But right now I’m also goddamned angry at your country on behalf of my country and all the others that have to be caught in the blast.
It’s been “too late” for 'mericans to “win back the country” for a couple of decades at least. I mean, the entire electoral/voting system needs to be redone from the ground up because it’s very non-democratic.
I’m sorry, you’re looking at these results and seeing too little democracy in play?
If you consider that more people didn’t vote for Trump and he still won, then yes.
Please cram another corporate candidate down my thoat daddy 🥺
Yes. It’s not half of America, it’s half of the voters. Things would change drastically if only the nonvoter voted.
Things would change drastically if only the nonvoter voted.
There is a big fat assumption in there, a similar reason why kamala lost…
Yes. The Dems lost this election more than the Reps won it.
And no, it’s not just Harris. It’s the fact they haven’t accomplished anything substantially changing the lives of people for dozens of years, and they fought more against people like Sanders than people like Cheney.
Doesn’t help that you have old hags like Nancy Pelosi refusing to relinquish any power and pass the torch to someone younger. People shouldn’t have to wait for you to die to take the reigns.
Limp dick DNC shills corpo agenda than pika face when peasants dont stay loyal tpp “the good team”
Are you drunk? Just because I would understand if you were drunk.
The ACA never happened in your mind?
The ACA, which brought US healthcare from an 18th century level to a 19th century one in 2010, was a half measure under Obama, he got reelected for it, he was president for 7 more years after he signed that.
First time voters today were 4 years old when it happened. What else has the Democratic Party been doing? How about the housing crisis? How about inflation? Oh, they got that one 1400 USD stimmy check passed after Trump looted the coffers for corpos big and small.
Look, I’m not saying Harris wasn’t the better, less destructive choice. I’m saying something had had to happen, and people didn’t turn out for a candidate who said the past four years and the way the world is going is good. Not as well as for someone who saw problems and proposed - admittedly monstrous and ineffective - solutions.
If Trump won the electoral college but not the popular vote I’d say it is.non-Democratic. But he won the popular vote too. So half the country are just self destructive.
California has only counted around half their votes so a popular vote win for Kamala could be a thing.
People don’t vote because they see the system is rigged so the popular vote isn’t a great standard to go by either, it’s a product of the system as well
If you had 100% turnout the popular vote would be very different.
People don’t vote because they see the system is rigged so the popular vote isn’t a great standard to go by either, it’s a product of the system as well
Yeah, I didn’t even bother. My area is such a strong republican district that my vote is functionally irrelevant. Hell, they didn’t even bother with democrat candidates on a local level.
If that were me I would run as an independent, people love that on a local level. “I’m putting town/county first!” And say I’m going to fix the roads people LOVE talking about how bad the roads are when it comes to local politics.
Quite the change from 2016, when he lost the popular vote by almost 3 million. Congrats, 'murica.
Yeah we are not trending in the right direction here.
There’s a lot of fuckery that happened since before and after the election. They fucked with the census to give red states more ec votes. They changed voting rules and redistricted in many states. They got ballots thrown out in certain areas. Yesterday the voting computer system in my (blue) county didn’t work for the first two hours fortunately I voted early. There’s also a lot more nuanced targeted misinformation out there now. People have these ideas in their heads and I have no clue where they came from. I block ads all the time but I imagine places like TikTok can easily manipulate people without anybody around them knowing about it.
There were no good options. And that’s because of the electoral system.
There was a so-so option and a terrible option IMO.
Honestly at this point y’all should just get the fuck out. Where to? Anywhere honestly. You’ll probably find the third world preferable to a post project 2025 Murica.
Russia’s been having a major brain drain issue as all people with functioning brains either have escaped or want to escape the country. I don’t see why Americans should do any different.
I hear Japan is practically giving houses away…
Eat shit.
This post is about recovery, not abandonment. Letting America fall will have global repercussions. Instructing us to give up is not helpful.
This post is about recovery, not abandonment
Recovery from what? Fascism is what your own neighbours chose. This is the system working exactly as intended and pretending it’s not is covering one’s own eyes. There are hundreds of millions of Americans for whom this is a good day. And their project is to remove any chance of them ever losing power again.
Thinking you’ll stop something like Project 2025 in the ballot box is willful ignorance at this point.
Since OP has already made it clear that “violent uprising” is not on the cards, then the alternative is to get out while they can. Hopefully while helping others do the same. Save themselves and their own.
Also:
Eat shit.
Don’t threaten me with a good time, gringo <3
I gave up this morning. America gave up on you at birth.
Sending this dude a dm on NZ. I’m sure they need mechanics.
FWIW a candidate the left could vote for instead of someone to vote against would help.
Pretty sure Trump said we wouldn’t have to worry about voting anymore. It would all be taken care of.
It would.
But I think that ship has sailed.
And honestly it might be the third-worlded-accustomed-to-things-being-uttter-bullshit in me. But I think “Winning back the country” is an unrealistic and foolhardy goal. Everyone who is on the radar for being harmed by Trump should look out for themselves and their own. Which includes “getting the fuck out of the country” if that is what it takes.
Additionally: A significant portion of the country won today. They got exactly what they wanted. And pretending that this neofascism is some kind of external infection is tantamount to covering one’s own ears.
I’d recommend assassination, in Minecraft. If you’re leaving the server and everything is fucked then do one for the team and cause some heads to roll, in Minecraft. The right used violence and it led to the presidency. A coup was rewarded. Let’s take some notes.
I am going to commit several violent acts (in Stellaris)
pretending that this neofascism is some kind of external infection is tantamount to covering one’s own ears.
See, I think it’s mixed. You’re absolutely right that people voted for this. At the same time, years of propaganda by monied interests have led us up to this point. Authoritarianism has been low-key popular at least since the 90s (maybe earlier, but the 90s was when I started school, and learned by experience that fascism is how the school system operates.) People are scared to rock the boat against their “leaders,” and given enough time, this is the result.
I wish I had time right now to write more about this, because there is some deep psychological manipulation that’s embedded in the fabric of this country. It doesn’t excuse people’s behaviors, but knowing how and why they operate is crucial to understanding the big picture.
At the same time, years of propaganda by monied interests have led us up to this point
See you’re right but –
– Those monied interests are also coming from within. The wealthy and powerful from America who see this as a way to consolidate and protect their own wealth and power.
Silicon Valley wanted Neofascism. Wall Street wanted Neofascism. Fracking Barons like the Koch Brother(s) wanted Neofascism. Some out in the open, like the afore-mentioned Koch(s) and Elon Musk, but make no mistake, every billionaire who “shuts up about politics” is most likely a Neofascist in private, because this benefits them.
The people in America are heavily propagandised, but that propaganda is funded and developed by and for the benefit of the wealthy within America itself.
Some people lean really hard into the whole “russian influence” thing because it is comforting. And it is entirely possible that there ARE Russian fingers in this pie – Russia does benefit from a weakened America, in any way they CAN weaken it. Heck, China and the Middle Eastern powers do too, so maybe they have fingers in that pie too.
But never forget that it started with wealthy Americans, and not some foreign agent. And if every foreign influence walked away, it would continue without them.
Theoretically, The Revolution™ that lefties like me talk about could change things. Just like theoretically, a peaceful political reform could change things. Theoretically.
But I’m from the third world. Hopelessness is my
bread and butterrice and beans. So I’m entirely accustomed to daydreaming of one day things changing, while expecting elections to change nothing, and knowing for a fact that any attempt at armed fighting would most likely end in a victory for the bad guys (they have the bigger guns).The idea of “things are already fucked, have been since before you were born, if you want to make a difference, look out for yourself and those you CAN help, make a difference in the micro, because The System as a macro thing is outside your reach entirely” is in fact how most people have dealt with things since forever, and we survive.
It sounds like we’re on the same page. I didn’t mention foreign influence, only monied influence, which is the same thing you’re saying.
My point was that these influences previously existed in the U.S. long before now. They didn’t materialize out of the blue. Anyone who’s been explicitly anti-fascist prior to the past decade knows that there was already an undercurrent pulling people in that direction.
I appreciate hearing your perspective, and you’re absolutely on point. One thing I know for sure is that things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.
Damn, and europe already has a lot of refugees to deal with :p
This has actually all been a very elaborate “come to Brazil” meme on my part.Jokes aside, given how a lot of our people tend to worship the floor 'Murica walks on, if a bunch of refugees from the US came over, they’d probably be welcomed with open arms. :PI suppose we shall see. They have a decent agreement with Germany to my knowledge. But only if you want to work on the black market or live on the streets
We will take you in NZ.
No you won’t, NZ is one of the hardest countries to immigrate to.
Come on up to Canada. We’ve been suffering brain drain for ages, and could sure use some scientists and doctors!
PP coming in next year to do the same here though…
I majority of Americans think thats what theyve just done.
A majority of the voters. 72{ish. We’re still counting)mil is not the majority.
As someone from a country with mandatory voting i will not take a single second of any shit argument that hinges itself on people too lazy or stupid to excise their right to have a say in their own future. If u didnt vote then ur opinion and value for the purposes of political disscussion are 0.
They will over the next 4 years. Elections swing back and forth. Midterms will probably be greatly fir democrats
Maybe Biden could pack the Supreme Court before leaving office.
It wouldn’t be a great idea in the long run, but it’d potentially stop the entire system from functioning right now.
He should have expanded it as soon as he was elected.
He would have had to get that past the Senate, which he never really had.
My only real conclusion is that they’re all in on it.
Biden had four years and still has a few months for sweeping executive orders. If he doesn’t at least try, he’s a fucking coward or on the payroll.
Packing the court requires legislation, in which he needs Congress to send him a bill, and between the Republican House and the Filibuster in the Senate that was never happening.
Let the loud mouthed Marxists finally carry out the revolution they’ve been babbling about for the past 10 years. Oh wait…
U glowing
It’s over.
By watering the tree of liberty?
With urine?
No, blood from fascists
By finally doing what it clearly wants to do, splitting in multiple countries so red States can finally become third world countries like they so want to be.
It’s funny that the last time this was floated by Republicans, they thought they were kicking the Democrat states out.
In other words, they thought they were keeping the Federal government.
Republican states need Democrat states far more than vice versa.
If Trump truly does win, Republicans won’t split the country. They’ll make it even more impossible to leave.
I mean, no matter who gets kicked out by who, there would be at least two federal governments… I think most people don’t realize that when a country splits, the (at least two) new entities both become independent countries with their own government…
So where do you think the lines would get drawn? West Coast and New England + New York are the obvious ones to do their own thing. Pennsylvania cuts off the DMV area from New York/New England, unless we go on a county level and excise just the area around Philly to keep the whole northeast Atlantic together.
Is Chicago just left as an island in the Midwest? The red staters certainly won’t want it, and without it Illinois basically is a red state. RIP to the other midwest and southern cities too.
Colorado and New Mexico together would be quite fucked being landlocked in a sea of red otherwise.
Congratulations to Hawaii on its regained independence I guess. Alaska would probably be offered up to Putin as a thank you gift from Trump.
Do you think all the red states stay together as a single entity? Texas is an obvious candidate to decide to fuck off on its own, possibly Florida as well. But would South Carolina really care all that much to stay tied to Montana, for example, or vice versa?
If the Communists are willing to do what they say we need to do. This is a big “if” that I don’t see any evidence for.
If you read communist theory you’d understand that revolution isn’t easy, it takes multiple factors such as the current state of capitalism, class contusness and the global landscape. Once these things align we will witness the capitalist unable to deliver for the demands of the majority and the mass populous will soon realise how akin to slaves we are at that point the workers will fight back. I’m personally very active in my party building workers power through unions, attending demos and dispensing theory, a few months ago I traveled to Germany for a 5 day conference. It is only through these actions we can see change. It takes 15 present of the population to create real change so while you might feel content sitting around criticing our efforts you could be down here helping your comrades, the international group my party is linked to sent a dozen sp member to chilly to help in revolutionary action so rest assured that we are doing some heavy lifting.
I want to help. Do you have any advice? This has convinced me I have a moral imperative but I don’t even know where to start.
They’re the political opposition now. They should do what good opposition work includes. Hold the government accountable, force them to deliver results. Make the people pay attention and realize if their bills become less or more expensive. And I’d say re-consider life-choices. And make some fundamental changes. Maybe start a new political party if the Democrats are beyond hope.
I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil.
Firstly, undestanding what left actually is would be a good start. You’re not talking about the left. You’re talking about liberals. Liberalism isn’t left. Liberalism is right-wing, and always have been.
The actual left is very happy to be “uncivil.”
Secondly, a good second step would be to finally accept that liberals, and liberalism in general, has never, and will never, oppose fascism.
Those are two very basic things you can do right now.
So the way it looks now, Trump has won the presidency, and his allies will have the senate and house of representatives, and they already had the supreme court. The three branches of government will not be working as checks on each other’s power, unless we get very lucky and the various factions that make up the GOP split. This is obviously very, very bad, but there are still some checks on presidential power.
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Trump’s last term was a clusterfuck. Things may just be so disorganized that he struggles to actually get what he wants done.
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The states have limited power to defy the feds. While case law does state that federal law supercedes state law, that doesn’t mean all States will immediately cooperate wholeheartedly. Obviously a court battle will eventually get to the supreme court, but that takes time and requires a single panel of judges to beat multiple states into line on each new policy.
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Governments do have a small amount of caution when it comes to their people. One thing the crazy conservatives had right this whole time was that fundamentally, nobody was ever going to come for their guns because nobody wants to force a confrontation with a bunch of armed lunatics. In the same way, they’ll probably try to avoid massive riots and general strikes simply because it isn’t worth the fight to whoever is responsible.
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Citizens can resist. Go to protests, donate to political advocacy organizations (the ACLU will have its work cut out for it), and for Christ’s sake, go vote! Show up every year, just not every 4 years. Without the cooperation of congress, his power would be significantly curtailed.
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If nothing else, terms are limited. In 2 years we can swing congress. He isn’t going to be able to pass a constitutional amendment to do what he likes before that. If we swing congress in two years, it will slow him down significantly, and then we can replace him in 2028. Hopefully people will actually keep showing up long enough after that to reverse all the damage he’s likely to do in the next 4 years.
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