I called in sick today so I could skip all the meetings lol
If your stand-up is that stressful and takes less than 30 seconds to minute per speaker, you need to find a better job.
Unless thus is about stand-up comedy. In that case, you’re 100% right.
I’m happy when it just takes that amount of time, because everything else is just a waste of time…
*more than 30 seconds to a minute?
Correct, edited my post, thanks
The stand-ups at my job have turned into sit downs
The whole reason you’re supposed to be standing up is to keep them short…
Lol our standup+parking lot is scheduled for an hour. Kill me.
It took me a year but I broke my team of this habit. The trick was to remind them that the parking lot shouldn’t be scheduled. The whole point is that you continue conversations organically so that it’s more like the beginning of a working session instead of the end of a meeting.
I’ve fought this battle so many times.
My most recent battle was being told to implement Scrum and agile practices. When the subject of standup NOT being a status update came up, and I forcibly told people to keep their updates brief, it was changed to a “Sync Meeting” that lasted over an hour. Apparently, despite delivering stuff faster, being able to track velocity and ensure we’re not overextending ourselves each “sprint”, and actually knowing what we’re delivering through actionable tasks - we’re not doing agile any more…
Hm. Might not be standup that’s the problem. Might be a company culture thing. But only you know that for sure. Good luck op! Disassociation can be a life saver.
Yeah but then I’m up and sitting there like “oh shit, what the hell did I do yesterday?”
Stand ups (as originally described) shouldn’t be about what you already did, but what you are going to be working on and if there is a need to collaborate.
Most people got the concept wrong and turned them into mini status meetings.
True. I’ve worked in pretty small teams with usually 2-4 devs paired, so it kind of worked out as both what we got through, what’s next priority, and how we plan to split out that day. Especially if we were light on stories.
Yepp, and no one really listens to the others, just trying to remember what you did and make sure no one dumps more work on you.
This post is creating company culture by its promotion of ditching coworkers and seeking validation through memes. Disassociation is the problem!
Thanks
Not attempting stand-up, too
the more i learn about software development, the more i feel I’ve dodged a bullet by changing my major to electrical engineering.
Never join a robotics startup, lol. You will have to go to standup and it will be useless and annoying basically every time.
Just send the robot instead!
It can’t! It’s too busy doing 500 km of burn-in after making it through testing. :(
Well, if you learn about software development from reddit and Lemmy, that’s one thing. Not always representative of the real world.
its the things I hear from real software developers that concern me:
- You will spend your entire career chasing trends.
- The market is volatile. People are constantly getting abruptly laid off. SD has never been very stable, so you should plan on getting a new job every few years.
- Software companies are constantly looking for ways to make SD easier. As a result, your value will decrease over time, in preference for bootcampers and 2 year degree graduates.
- Nobody listens to developers. Your manager’s beliefs about SD come entirely from consultants, magazines, and Elon Musk tweets.
- Nobody cares about quality software. If you take the time to make your code efficient and lightweight, all your manager sees is you taking longer to make something than your peers. After all, we can just raise hardware requirements if the software is slow.
- You will spend your entire career chasing trends.
Depends on the language, that’s mostly a JavaScript/typescript issue.
- The market is volatile. People are constantly getting abruptly laid off. SD has never been very stable, so you should plan on getting a new job every few years.
Depends on the country, where I’m from there has been very few layoffs.
- Software companies are constantly looking for ways to make SD easier. As a result, your value will decrease over time, in preference for bootcampers and 2 year degree graduates.
Not sure what to say, I haven’t felt my value decrease. All I see are bubbles saying they will replace me… and then they burst.
Nobody listens to developers. Your manager’s beliefs about SD come entirely from consultants, magazines, and Elon Musk tweets.
Agree but that’s more of an engineering wide problem, specially when you get managers with very few engineering experience. Take the Apollo landings as an opposite example: great managers that were great engineers.
- Nobody cares about quality software. If you take the time to make your code efficient and lightweight, all your manager sees is you taking longer to make something than your peers. After all, we can just raise hardware requirements if the software is slow.
This is a bit too generic to argue against. You can get that in electrical engineering no? If you take more time designing that PCB because you want to better place the components to improve heat dissipation, will your manager care in the end?
Seems pretty accurate to me. After a decade doing it, I’m pretty damn jaded though so YMMV.
The last two points hurt the most tbh. what keeps me going is the feeling of catching a glimpse of that ephemeral sublime beauty which is a well architected system
Didn’t see what community I was in when I read the post and thought there were just a lot of people here who hate stand up comedians doing crowd work
I thought it was referring to “standup meetings,” which is what we called weekly meetings with the commander in the military.
Everyone stands for the commander when he enters a room, then each person presenting needs to be standing while briefing the commander.
It’s military protocol for a high-ranking officer, although the cool officers would tell everyone to buck protocol, remain seated, and just give them the bullet points so we can get back to work.
I hate crowd work. Getting called on while on a night out is my worst nightmare
The purpose of stand up is to not listen to anything and say a sentence that no one listens to. It’s like a Buddhist meditation.
Lemmy keeps it real.
lol I hope your standups are not actually like this! The purpose is to, as a team, plan how to achieve a goal
I’m not actually a programmer (/engineer) I’m just a hobbyist. I work in supply chain, have worked at 4 companies in 8 years - all had stand ups, all of them are like this.
Err… Is your team doing planning during standup? I’ve never heard of that, from either people who are on teams that use standups, or from any of the Agile/Scrum literature that I’ve seen. In my experience, standups are typically about either a) coordinating the execution of work that has already been committed to, or b) whoops just a status meeting and everybody’s tuned out.
Ah, I see how my wording was confusing. I mean planning in the sense of “How will we complete the work that we already committed to?” and “What will we do today to achieve our Sprint goal?”
I arrived at the word planning because Scrum is sometimes described as a planning-planning-feedback-feedback cycle. You plan the Sprint, you plan daily (Daily Scrums), you get feedback on your work (Sprint Review), and you get feedback on your process (Sprint Retrospective).
Yeah - it’s an art to find the perfect mix between “sounds complicated enough that they zone out”, “sounds like stuff gets done” and “not making people ask if you need help with that”.
Counterpoint: If you’re working from home it might be the only people contact you get for days.
Supposedly talking to people and touching grass is healthy.
My fear of working full-remote. I mean I got enough friends, but still that’s significant less social time, when not being in something like a coworking space… Although other benefits are really tempting (like 2 to 3 times the salary)
Wait, you earn more to not commute?
I mean I can just take a job in the states, they pay quite a bit more there compared to Europe, and it can be even more targeted in the area of my interest (low-level stuff in Rust which pays even better than what I can find here)… Locally the jobs are pretty limited (at least those that interest me)… Everyone wants Java/C# or JS devs here (all languages I’ll try to avoid, and I suspect it has to do with maintaining old (tech-debt) code-bases which I try to avoid even more)… But I’m quite happy with my team currently and just have rant about JS everyday, but at least don’t have to maintain tech-debt (at least not something that I haven’t produced myself^^)… And I get great food for free… Hmm trade-offs.
Hmm, are they finally hiring internationally? Americans are historically funny about that.
I mean at least the jobs that interest me often are also (full) remote, but I’m mostly interested in start-ups, they seem to be more open with it (and the job descriptions sound more interesting). I think Covid did its job there, unlike it seems for big tech?
My boss doesn’t do meetings. Every once in a while he approves my vacation request and I get notified it’s approved. Sounds better than it is, but it is better than pointless daily meetings. Adult daycare crap.
My new boss just cancelled all of our daily standup meetings that were introduced by the previous management. Reason given: “I have seen nothing valuable here during the last two weeks.”
I like him.
My boss is usually doing WFM and HR duties instead of her own, so no meetings for me either! So far I have a perfect performance record!
In a standup comedy act whenever I get on my feet (optional).
Dont really have a choice in not attending that event.My dumb ass: " Wtf how often do you have to go to comedy stand ups for it to be self care NOT to go. SMH."
Once, if it’s Ricky Gervais
If I ever was in a room with him, I’d ask if he thinks there’s ever a situation where a comedian should have priorities beyond getting a laugh. He seems to operate on the assumption it’s a no, and I want to hear him openly say that, or else have the opportunity to call him out.
If I was a in charge of a business I would put a hard email filter (including externally) on corporate jargon because it is too vague and people just use it to seem smarter than they really are. The no-reply would give a lengthy explanation on why it’s bad practice.
Hmm, I wonder how often it would generate a false positive and force someone to reword something innocuous. My guess is that it would be relatively rare.
Dope. Put garbage language where it belongs.
The worst thing about standups is that about once a month I catch a problem early because of what someone says. The tradeoff doesn’t feel worth it time-wise. But it keeps me from skipping them.
You could also see it as you preventing someone else from learning from their own mistakes. Maybe reframing it like that could help with skipping :)
But stand-up comedy has something for everyone!
Oh, this is about the depressing nexus between programming and corporate culture. Carry on.
I like stand-up. It’s probably the only time of the day I see my coworkers. Also we don’t do status reports or anything so maybe I’m just lucky ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
