- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- privacy@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- privacy@lemmy.ml
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It’s not possible not to it you want to visit USA. If you don’t, they’ll reject your visa or deny entry. Thr only way is to use brand new cheap android before or after ( after is better ) and resell it once you go back. Most corporations do so
So the answer is to not visit the US then.
it’s a policy that has never let me down
Don’t you want to see our amazing 200 years as a nation and 500 years of massacre sites??!!?
No, but your weird obsession with ridiculously unhealthy food is somewhat interesting.
The obesity rate in Australia (and New Zealand) isn’t very far behind the USA…
Agreed.
And the causes are probably broadly similar; lack of education about how to cook, lack of time to cook, lack of education on healthy food, too much food advertising, ultra-processed foods are too common, healthy foods are expensive…
If you absolutely have to hand over your phone, turn it off completely, like hold the power button and then tap the off icon. That will dump any keys out of RAM, which is why it always requires the full password to unlock when you turn it back on. Both in terms of how your phone works and the leaks we’ve seen, the cracking tools the police have are overall significantly less likely to be successful when used on a phone that’s been turned off and not unlocked since.
Also, IIRC iphones have a feature where they will dump at least some of the system keys from RAM if you push the lock button five times. I’d still trust fully off more but that’s easier to do covertly.
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Sounds like it’s time for the deniably encrypted phone.
Would be cool to have a second account or storage that unlocked with a different PIN. Load it up with porn and embarrassing search histories.
What county is this, so I know to avoid it?
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A lot countries have this now.
Even for a number of countries where it’s not technically enshrined in law, police can still effectively do it anyway, by detaining you for as long as they like until you comply.
The solution is to simply shit yourself, without breaking eye contact, while under their custody to assert dominance.
UK
Can’t I just say I forgot my pin? They can’t prove I don’t have a shit memory.
Good luck https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-25745989
That only works if you’re rich
Classic quality Land
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How can they prove guilt? Innocent until proven guilty under English common law, right?
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lol
Nah, can’t be, they said it was a European one and the UK voted to no longer be part of Europe. /s
Incidentally, the European court for human rights said that that law violated the ECHR convention.
The UK said “yeah, so what?”, which since they’ve left the EC it’s legally right, but it’s not a great outlook when you’re told your laws violate human rights.
Also on Android press the power button and volume up button simultaneously, and then press lockdown.
Five times wanted to set off an emergency service call and sound the alarm 🚨 YMMV (Pixel 7)
Additionally, with the Pixel 9 holding down the power button no longer turns it off, you have to press power and volume up at the same time to get to the power menu.
That can be changed in the settings
I had no idea… thank you! It’s always a crapshoot if I take a screenshot or get into the power settings. So bizarre.
power and volume down does screenshots
Power and Volume DOWN would make infinitely more sense for “power DOWN” function.
not particularly
There’s usually a hardware level power off function for when the device freezes and stuff. Can usually hold the power button for ~10 seconds will power off the device without needing to look at the screen
does this apply to other countries
You have to suspect, I fear. At least, those exploiting tools are very expensive. So there is this little roadblock. On the other hand, a lot of this money goes to an Isreal based company…
What if the country did not support israel and does not recognize it
Mark my words.
For many of us, this is a “No shit Sherlock” moment.
But in 10 years, we will have young people going “Uh what really?”
Remember when we used to say, “Don’t put your name on the internet?” And now it’s everywhere?
Yeah I remember the early days of the internet when no one used their real name and we had relationships with dozens of people who we had no idea where they lived and what their real names were.
It seems quaint, but I kinda liked it like that.
Its still like that on discord. Have no idea what one of my closest friends name is, but he really loves opossums and Minecraft!
I don’t see what the difference would be in 10 years.
I don’t think 90% of people, especially “young people” would avoid doing this already. It’s already a major awareness/compliance issue, and not at all a “no shit sherlock” moment.
But what did you have in mind that will be different in 10 years? Paricularly for young people.
That was like the biggest thing i learned in computer class, that i already knew in 2002 or so. Later myspace became a thing, and everyone had a myspace name. Then facebook and some people used their real name. Then facebook asked you for your phone number, and i thought: well, that’s silly, who in their right mind would do that. Turns out the answer is everyone.
Remember when we used to say, “Don’t put your name on the internet?” And now it’s everywhere?
Mine isn’t, go ahead and look it up. You won’t find my name anywhere in the internet.
Here it is encrypted so only you can read it: >!John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt!<
Woah that’s my name too
Hey! That’s my name too!
Hey what the heck? How did you get my Lemmy password?
All I see is *******
Hunter2
This meme is 20 years old now, I bet there are kids repeating it who weren’t alive when it was first made and don’t even know where it comes from.
Fuck I’m old, how could you do this to me?
Well, bash.org is gone, so…
Duh.
Reminder: If you are in a situation where you’re presenting a digital ID to a digital ID reader, do not unlock your phone first. Tap your locked phone on the ID reader, then authenticate the document share.
DO NOT GIVE THEM YOUR PHONE
DO NOT TALK TO POLICE
Your ONLY responses should be to identify yourself, and “I will not make any statements without my lawyer present.”
Serious question, what gets you into these situations that you need to safeguard your belongings so hard? I’m asking to understand not to make a shit post thread.
All this makes it sound like police are giving you a bunch of time to respond and addressing you politely.
I mean, I agree on the principle. Don’t just hand your phone over to… anyone, really. But the game becomes very different when a guy with a gun is hassling you over it.
This is why I set up tasker to lockdown my phone under certain conditions, such as: getting disconnected from Bluetooth (like when my phone is separated from me and my watch, my headphones, or the car), getting disconnected from WiFi (like when it’s taken from where it’s supposed to be), getting a slight jolt from the accelerometer (like getting thrown to the ground or even just a swift tap). My phone may get locked down a bunch during day to day stuff, but at least I know it will lockdown automatically when it matters.
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Just save a picture/scan of it in whichever secure password manager you use. It’s good enough for most uses.
I know this is obvious – but I also don’t want to have to purchase a printer to print out up to date proof of insurance.
My current plan is to just hand over the old/expired copy. Or I have to go through attempting to remember how to display a card from your Apple Wallet while it remains locked.
library will let you print a page for a dime
Most of the time you can go to the library and print it out there. My insurance company (Geico) will still send cards if i request them.
But aPpLe CaRe AbOuT pRiVaCy
To add to this, don’t use bio-metrics to lock your devices. Cops will “accidentally” use these to unlock devices when they are forcibly seized.
Or just know how to enable lockdown mode. On iOS that’s 5 rapid clicks of the power button, screen on or off, and it vibrates to let you know you got it without looking. Dunno what it might be for android, or if it varies by model.
It ends up like a newly rebooted phone; requires a typed passcode.
(On Android five clicks on the lock screen makes an emergency call)
I personally rather trust that my device isn’t able to be unlocked without my permission, rather than hope I am able to do some action to disable it in certain situations. The availability of such features is nice, but I would assume I would be incapable of performing such actions in the moment.
My other thought is, how guilty is one perceived if they immediately attempt to lock their phones in such a matter, by a jury of their peers? I rather go the deniability route of I didn’t want to share my passcode vs I locked my phone down cause the cops were grabbing me.
For most phones, just rebooting it will drop it back to bio + passcode. That’s the quick method for me.
This is good to know, but adds an additional step to simply requiring a passcode to unlock on screen lock.
It’s also much more secure to reboot (and not unlock) it, should it be taken from you and potentially tried to be broken into or compromised in some way, usually to extract data and perform forensics. A phone that has been unlocked is weaker with protection than one which has been restarted and awaiting first unlock.
This will also put the device in the “before first unlock” state, which will make it harder to extract data, even with physical access. After first unlock some data might be accessed even without the passcode when connecting the phone to a computer
But… “Apple bad!”
Yes, Apple is bad. They are a tax-dodging multi-trillion-dollar company. They are not good. They are not your friend.
Android phones have this feature as well btw lol
Google IS your friend?
Where did I say that?
You seem to be looking at this like a console fanboy. Me criticising Apple does not mean I’m a fan of Google.
Just stop
no
If you reboot your phone, the first unlock can’t use biometrics
You can also set it up so biometrics can be used by apps but not to unlock the phone. That way it’s easy to get to your apps and such but trivially more difficult to unlock.
I’m a cop and I can tell you that, at least in my country, you’d have no reason to not unlock your phone if you haven’t done anything.
I can understand that in some countries cops can be seen as criminals (and are behaving like criminals), but I don’t think a generality should be made. Just like a generality shouldn’t be made about people from an origin all doing the same bad thing.
Also don’t take advices from what you see on Lemmy as every user comes from a different country with different laws.
In my country, we can take your phone but we aren’t allowed to unlock it without your consent or without a prosecutor saying so.
How exactly is an individual supposed to determine which cops will be good and which will abuse their power?
Just as we can’t make a general statement that all cops are definitely bad, you can’t make a general statement that all cops in any particular country or town will be good.
From a basic risk management viewpoint, it doesn’t make sense for anyone to accept the risk that any given cop won’t abuse their position, even if we were willing to accept that very few would actually do so.
Cops have an extremely privileged status in society and the amount of damage that a bad one can do to an individual - on purpose or even by accident - is incalculable, including setting up an innocent person for capital punishment as we’re seeing unfold in Missouri right now.
Well said!
I agree with you, you can’t know for sure that you’re with a good or bad cop.
But you also have to comply with laws if you don’t want to get in trouble.
I can only answer for my country and I can tell you that here you’re gonna waste way less time if you show what’s in your phone and we can see that you’re innocent.
The time not wasted there might also be used to catch the person who’s really guilty.
I’ll just give you an example even if it’s not reated to unlocking phones: A black BMW 335i is filmed hitting a pedestrian and the plate number finishes with a 5. We’re gonna need to have a look at every BMW within these parameters. If you prevent the police from checking your car by hiding it, a guilty guy might have more time to hide his car and a crime is gonna go unpunished, leaving a victim with no one to pay for his injuries.
Of course, that reality might be different elsewhere. It’s just that I have noticed that on Lemmy cops are only seen as bad guys when, in my case, I spend a lot of time helping people.
So you’re advocating for fewer civil rights (or at least for people not to exercise their civil rights) because it saves you time and money? Spoken like a true pig.
If someone from your family gets abducted and the police can ask your neighbors to cooperate and give information without everyone just using a right to remain silent or lie, I’m sure you would be happy with the time gained to help you find your family member.
You may want to consider in your made-up scenario the reason behind an entire neighbourhood refusing to give any information.
If you have a problem, and you call the cops, now you have two problems.
Ill take 400 on “things that don’t actually happen” Ghost of Alex!!
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/kidnappings-per-country
I’ll just give you an example even if it’s not reated to unlocking phones: A black BMW 335i is filmed hitting a pedestrian and the plate number finishes with a 5. We’re gonna need to have a look at every BMW within these parameters. If you prevent the police from checking your car by hiding it, a guilty guy might have more time to hide his car and a crime is gonna go unpunished, leaving a victim with no one to pay for his injuries.
And if my car was in an unrelated accident but just happened to fit those criteria, you could use that as evidence against me (and not only that, but then stop trying to solve the crime because you’ve assumed the perpetrator.) It ALWAYS goes both ways. If the only way you can solve a crime is by violating people’s privacy without a warrant, maybe don’t be a cop.
Cops are seen as bad guys because people like you argue for why rights shouldn’t apply to people, and making you get a warrant (aka doing your job) is seen as interfering with a crime.
The worst part is, it is stupidly easy to get warrants here in the US, but the cops WILL make your life miserable if you make them get one.
I cannot know with 100% certainty that someone hasn’t planted false evidence on my phone, so I absolutely have reason turn my phone off before surrendering it (if I’m forced to surrender it).
If cops are certain I’ve committed a crime, why do they need to rely on methods outside the law to get me? No, I’m never going to consent to any sort of search without a warrant. If you think I have something to hide, why are you afraid to get a warrant?
That’s the thing, often you don’t know if someone has committed a crime and looking into their phone can also prove that they’re not guilty.
I ain’t talking about any method outside of the law. Willingly cooperating isn’t illegal. Nothing forces you to be friendly with your neighbors, but being friendly with your neighbor isn’t illegal.
Sorry, by “outside of the law” I meant apart from legally compelling someone. The word choice made it sound like I meant illegal methods. I meant volunteering information. I don’t think people should ever do it. I’ve edited that in for clarity.
It’s my personal opinion that the police should not even be allowed to request voluntary searches, but that’s a different topic and one I recognize as more extremist. It’s just too easy for requests to sound like demands in a society with manners. Phrases like “Would you please do X?” are often used for both optional things and required things because “Do X” sounds rude to people.
In a recent study it was found that around 2/5 of phones held by police had signs of tampering, including when they are supposed to get a warrant. If you want to know more Google, "40% police study " and it will probably show up on the first page.
I’m going to preface this by saying the whole Americanised ACAB stuff is silly. Not everywhere has a shitty, militarised police force like theirs. Where I am, my experience with the police has been pretty positive, even with me being an immigrant with darker skin.
But man, no.
If police want your data, they can ask you politely, and if you say no, then that should be it. End of discussion. People have the right to privacy.
Maybe the officer wouldn’t do anything nefarious. But then again, maybe they will. You have no way of knowing what type of person that officer is. Even good police forces have plenty of shitty employees, so police powers should be limited to avoid them just doing whatever they want.
If there’s a genuine reason to have your data, say you’re implicated in some investigation, then they can go through the proper channels and get a warrant.
Police absolutely should not have the power to just do whatever they like. If you let them, have that, it leads to shitty police forces like they have in the US and elsewhere.
I totally agree with you and that’s what we have in my country.
At least someone on Lemmy is not jumping on the ACAB stuff train.
People are the first one to criticize us (sometimes with good reasons) but they are the first one to call us when they are in deep shit.
I’m a cop and I can tell you that, at least in my country, you’d have no reason to not unlock your phone if you haven’t done anything.
I can understand that in some countries cops can be seen as criminals (and are behaving like criminals), but I don’t think a generality should be made.
It sounds like you’re saying that you would assume that someone had done something illegal if they refused to unlock their phone for you. It’s a bit ironic that you then immediately say that people shouldn’t generalize about cops behaving as criminals.
I don’t let my friends go through my phone. Cop or not, why would I let a stranger?
Because your friend would just be doing it out of curiosity, not as part of an investigation.
I’m not saying that anyone not unlocking their phone has done something illegal, but just that some people who are refusing to give something willingly to the police is making them waste precious time which could be used to catch up with the bad guy.
Again I can only talk about my country and maybe in the US cops are awful, I don’t know. But I know that family of victims would love people to just cooperate with the police and not make them waste time…
Because your friend would just be doing it out of curiosity, not as part of an investigation.
It doesn’t matter why my friend wants to use my phone. If a friend wants to use my computer, I log out and sign into a guest account that doesn’t have access to my private documents. That’s not an option on my phone. It doesn’t matter if my friend has a legitimate reason to want to look at something on my phone. Maybe they want to see a picture I took last Friday - if they tell me that, I’ll just pull it up and share it with them.
If my phone has something on it that can help the police and the police tell me what they’re looking for, I can check my phone myself and share specifically that information with them.
If my phone doesn’t have that information, I can tell them that, too.
This is the exact same as with my friends. The difference is that the police are much more likely to be antagonistic and much less likely to tell me what they want.
If the police can’t articulate what they’re looking for or if they don’t trust me to tell me what it is, then I DEFINITELY don’t trust them to look at my phone themselves. And heck, that’s true of my friends, too.
If I hand a police officer my phone unlocked, what’s stopping them from hooking it up to GrayKey or Cellebrite or some other similar tool, and dumping all the data from my phone without my knowledge - whether for legitimate or nefarious purposes? What stops them from doing this “out of curiosity?” This isn’t generally a risk with my friends, but it’s always a risk when dealing with the police.
In the US, when there’s suspicion of police wrongdoing, the police investigate themselves (and either conclude that nobody did anything wrong or that only one person did something wrong but everyone else is fine). It’s so bad that it’s a meme (“We’ve investigated ourselves and found no evidence of any wrongdoing.”) But even if you don’t have the police investigating themselves in your country, it’s still the government doing that investigation. And nothing makes the government inherently trustworthy.
As a private citizen of your country who was legitimately concerned that the police are retaining more data than necessary, could I visit the police station and ask them to give me supervised admin access to their computers (as well as the personal computers of anyone who might have had access to my device or to the data extracted from it), as well as full access to the station itself in case there are any unaccounted for computers, so that I can confirm that the police aren’t overstepping? If not, why not? It’s not like the police have anything to hide, right? And the sooner that the police cooperate and that information is shared with me, the sooner I can rest easy knowing I and my fellow citizens have not been victimized by the police.
Hopefully you see how ridiculous it is for me to expect someone to just give me access to all of that information. That’s actually less ridiculous than a police officer asking me to hand them my unlocked phone.
As a private citizen, I have to trust that police and government officials are doing their jobs properly. If they don’t, I can have my privacy invaded or be framed for a crime, with no method for recourse. And without any real accountability. I have to trust a police officer if I hand him my phone, and I’m the only one risking anything. In the opposite scenario, if I overstep while they’re supervising me reviewing their systems, they can hold me accountable immediately.
Well thanks for your precise answer. It’s nice to have some civilized people being able to just discuss about a topic.
We can just agree to disagree before I leave the topic 😅
Would it be fair to summarize your point as “if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear”?
Man, fuck that.
It’s none of your business what’s on our phones, period.
You want access? Go through due process.
The very fact that you led off with “you’re fine if you have nothing to hide” makes you the problem, you personally, not anyone else around you, you.
Doesn’t matter what country you’re in at all. Doesn’t even matter what the law says in this case, because crappy laws exist.
That kind of thinking is exactly why people don’t trust cops.
I can understand that in some countries cops can be seen as criminals (and are behaving like criminals), but I don’t think a generality should be made. Just like a generality shouldn’t be made about people from an origin all doing the same bad thing.
ACAB, and you don’t get to compare your chosen profession to where people were born or the colour of their skin, nor try to claim victim points by pretending you are systemically oppressed and discriminated against in the same way we are (though your trying to does go to strengthen my first point).
Fuck you, pig.
ACAB piggly wiggly
Don’t besmirch the good name of Piggly Wiggly. https://www.pigglywigglystores.com/
🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽🐽
Fuck you
“It’s rude to not let me invade your privacy. If you have nothing to hide just let me see your phone!” Fuck off, pig
Cops are garbage
Says the guy insulting a stranger based on their profession
Yes because their profession is garbage.
I don’t know why your getting downvoted and have replies with ACAB…
Keep in mind I come at this from an American perspective.
I do have to disagree with the first paragraph. You do not need to access to or to search my phone to perform your job. If the phone becomes part of a criminal investigation then ideally a warrant would be put out by a judge and a Computer Forensics team would take it from there.
At least in the USA, the bad perception of cops is not just because of their apparent lack of accountability and ability to get away with murder, but also how expansive the scope of their duties are. So much authority intrusted in one person clearly seems to go to their heads more often than not here.
I understand in many European countries the scope of a cops duties is much more restricted. I know Britian doesn’t even provide their law enforcement with firearms.
*especially if you’ve got nothing to hide.
No shit
