I just moved into a student dorm for a semester abroad, and beforehand I emailed them asking whether they had ethernet ports to plug my router into (I use it to connect all my devices, and for WiVRn VR streaming). They confirmed that I could, but now that I’m here the wifi login portal is asking me to accept these terms from the ISP, which forbid plugging in a router. There’s another clause that forbids “Disruptive Devices” entirely, defined as:
“Disruptive Device” means any device that prevents or interferes with our provision of the 4Wireless to other customers (such as a wireless access point such as wireless routers) or any other device used by you in breach of the Acceptable Use Policy;
So what are my options? I don’t think I can use this service without accepting the terms, but also I was told by the student dorm support that I could bring a router, which contradicts this.
EDIT: some additional context:
- dorm provider is a company separate from my uni (they have an agreement but that’s it)
- ISP (ask4) is totally separate from dorm provider, and have installed a mesh network that requires an account. On account creation, there are many upsells including one for connecting more than one device. The “free” plan only allows me to sign in on a single device, and I can upgrade to two devices for 15 pounds.
- ethernet requires login too
- VR streaming requires a high performance wifi 6 network, which is why I bought this router (Archer C6 from tp-link)
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They don’t want you plugging in your own gear to their network, fine.
Get one of the “5G Home Internet” services from T-Mobile or Verizon, plug your router into that.
https://www.t-mobile.com/home-internet
https://www.verizon.com/home/internet/5g/
Not on their network, they have absolutely no say over it.
While they “may” allow it. They absolutely have a say, and can prohibit it. Same way apartment complexes can prohibit pets.
Not really, it’s not their network. No way to prohibit it. All you’d do is plug it into power.
The dorm could, the ISP couldn’t.
While I believe they really could, that would be really stupid. Is creating a hotspot with your phone suddenly also not allowed? Because that’s all it essentially is.
Since the price mentions British Pound Sterling as currency I dont think Verizon would be there. But T-Mobile is probably there in the UK.
If this is UK major local ISPs would be: O2, EE, Three
T-mobile did exist for a while but is not defunct and where replaced by Orange and then EE.
Three are the cheapest generally if they have coverage there.
Is the VR streaming in the Local net (PC to Headset)? Just run the WiFi router without plugging it into the wall. Connect only the pc and the headset.
Also, appart from that, to use more wired devices, maybe use an unmanaged switch. Don’t think that does anything forbidden here.
Robust but complex solution:
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Set up an encrypted VPN at the router level. Any encryption will work, even weak dumb encryption is fine. Any attempts to decrypt it would be mad illegal.
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Turn off your SSID.
It is now functionally impossible to detect anything about the traffic or the Wi-Fi router without some serious or illegal methods.
It is now functionally impossible to detect anything about the traffic or the Wi-Fi router without some serious or illegal methods.
You should really spend some time learning about WiFi signals. Tracking down rogue Access Points is a pretty common thing and having the SSID turned off does fuck all to prevent it. On the easy end, many enterprise wireless network controllers have rogue AP detection built right in and will show you a map of the location of the rogue AP. Harder, but still entirely possible, is running around with a setup just detecting the signal and triangulating it.
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It just says you can’t use things that allow you to connect more devices than agreed. Which means nothing without knowing how many devices were allowed to begin with.
Yeah that’s the thing… the max devices is one, unless I pay a fee (per device I think). This third party that manages the internet offers a bunch of upsells in the account creation for stuff like more devices.
Is this a private or for profit university?
My university was pretty zen about this — essentially, “don’t use your own access point/router please. But if you do, please talk to your resident (University employed) student IT rep and they can probably help you set it up correctly.”
Name and shame that crappy backwards university.
It’s perfectly reasonable there’s no shame involved.
The part that isn’t reasonable is the misrepresentation. The Ethernet ports in the dorm aren’t allowed to be used with WiFi routers, contrary to what the student was told beforehand.
The rule might be fine, but not lying about it. If it was just a mistake, the dorm company should still attempt to make it up to the student. This was a deciding factor in choosing this dorm, by the sound of it.
The uni is not at fault here, the dorm is a separate entity that just happens to have a deal to keep some rooms for exchange students like me. The dorm is from iQ Student Accommodation (who told me I could bring a router), and the ISP they use is ASK4 (whose T&C you are seeing).
From the wording of the other rules below the highlighted one, I can only assume they mean you can’t install a second router that they provide. I mean, it also says you can’t install any “owner-supplied” devices.
I remember when I was in college running a hackintosh. I was at the end of the hall and had awful Wi-Fi reception, so I just had my desktop emitting Wi-Fi for me and my dorm mate. I pirated some stuff but never seeded. I told my roommate about pirating and whatnot and showed him how to pirate Parks and Recreation. He didn’t turn off seeding. The university banned my MAC address, but luckily I could spoof one and have internet. He had to go to the dean and tell him he was sorry and that he won’t do it again to get my hardware MAC banned so I didn’t have to change it every time I booted up.
The fact that it was so simple for me to get around this ban was hilarious.
Looks like that tos is just for the wifi network, if you’ve got an ethernet port then that won’t be using the wifi.
The ethernet connexion still requires a login/account creation/T&C acceptance sadly.
Hmm, the fact that they specifically prohibit even WAPs is going to be a problem too. Do you have the earlier conversation in writing? I’d go back to whoever you spoke to before and ask them about it.
That seems pretty standard stuff. My dorm had the same policy, because they operated their own mesh network and didn’t want students sending out their own radio signals that would have absolutely made their wireless network not work well.
Is there some reason you need your own router?
Yeah, the interference argument is fair, but I think this is also the ISP (totally separate third party) trying to protect the paid plans they sell for connecting more than one device…
So it’s a network operated by a third party? That’s interesting. The handful of universities I’ve been to maintain their own.
Where I went to school, originally the dorms were on the university network but a year in they offloaded us onto regular, commercial ISPs. The change was great for us since the university network was very strict on stuff like torrents (using DPI any torrent, even legal, got you disconnected for 24h)
My university had student apartments, each had their own router. No weird rules since it wasn’t the university’s network at all, it belonged to whoever lived in the apartment. Full router access, connect whatever, put it in bridge mode and connect your own if you want.
If there’s enough space between them, it would be less of an issue. If it was in a multifamily high rise with hundreds of units, I would expect it to cause issues.
Is this a problem with 5G networks? There are more channels and they don’t go through walls as well, right?
Tl;Dr It’s complicated.
Do you mean 5Ghz networks (5G is cellular tech, after all)? If so, 5Ghz can travel through walls, but it doesn’t travel as far, because there’s an inverse relationship between range and channel width. Also, 5Ghz has a shorter wavelength; some of the signal’s light will get absorbed by the walls, but not all of it.
Ultimately, you’d still have the same problem: too many radios sharing a limited range of frequencies on a band would interfere with each other if sufficiently close.
It would be akin to having everyone playing different music at full volume on their own personal speaker; you’ll inevitably hear the people closest to you. Radios can’t “hear” anything outside of their chosen frequency (channel), but if other people nearby are also on that channel, you might catch or lose some unintended packets, triggering a resend event (TCP) or causing stuttering/lag (UDP).
The number of channels available for 5Ghz varies by country, with the EU having the most, iirc. In the US, if you try to force your router to use one of the blacklisted channels, your devices will likely not connect (unless they were directly imported), despite being able to use the 5Ghz spectrum.
In that case, just set up a router level VPN. The university probably doesn’t give a shit. Which is why the help desk IT kid said it’s fine, probably.
It’s the 3rd party ISP just being greedy. The ISP may not even care as long as you’re not running an insane amount of traffic through it. Often this type of stuff is added to TOSs to allow them the option, if you’re being a bad actor.
trying to protect the paid plans they sell for connecting more than one device
It’s definitely 90% of the reason
Assuming they have their own wifi, they just don’t want you using wifi off of your own router. A wired connection should be fine.
Unfortunately, connecting to the ethernet port still prompts me to log into the network (make an account and accept these terms)
I would just accept the terms and disable wifi, or if you don’t want to double nat just use a switch and accept the terms / login on every device connected to the switch.
Accept the terms and ignore them
100% the correct answer.
And if they complain, show them your previous correspondence with them
Would that work even if the T&Cs are for a third party (the ISP), while the correspondence is with my dorm provider (not legally related to my uni, they just have a partnership)?
Yes I did the same thing at my uni halls, said fuck paying for multi device, bought a router, named it like a phone hot-spot and never had issues.
In reality no one that works there is paid nearly enough to care about the ISP’s terms and conditions, and even if someone from the ISP comes to do maintainance or something, they won’t be there to snoop for rule breakers and even if they are, if the SSID looks like a phone hot-spot, they won’t care, and even if they do they’re not going to trace it back to you directly and even if they do, you have the email saying its okay which will shift any and all blame away from you.
So just go for it, there’s a 99.999999999999999999% chance you won’t get caught and even if you do you won’t get any blame because you asked the company.
Probably not. But there is a good chance that they won’t notice at all. If they do, you can always take it down.
Maybe use an inconspicuous ssid? Like a similar name to a company or institute nearbyTurn off SSID broadcasting entirely. Hidden networks require more technical expertise to discover than most people have.
The ISP techs will still be able to find it, but there’s little reason for them to go looking when nothing seems out of the ordinary.
This is what I was going to recommend. Worse case scenario the internet gets shut off and he has to email somebody and say he won’t do it again. Most likely that nobody will notice or care.
So most dorms don’t want you using your own routers because a bunch of student routers causes A LOT of inference.
You should probably reach out not to the dorm folks but the university networking folks as they’re the ones that will ultimately make the decision on whether or not to turn things off/disconnect you.
A cheap networking switch would probably be okay by them to get some more wired connections in your dorm room (routers aren’t really a great way to do that).
That’s good advice, however this dorm is not part of my uni (just a partner to provide housing) and the internet provider whose T&C I’m expected to accept and sign up for 1y of are a totally separate legal entity, that has a bunch of upsells for stuff like “connect more than 1 device” (which my router/AP would basically be bypassing, and I think that’s what these clauses are about). About the interference, is it possible to limit it severely while still having a reliable connection just within my room? I only really want to connect:
- Laptop (wired)
- Phone
- VR for streaming from laptop
You may want to update your OP. Not being part of the University, makes a HUGE difference and will affect your options. Typically, when people say “dorms” it’s direct University provided housing.
Options in this case:
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Just play dumb, nobody expects anyone to actually read TOS.
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Setup a router level VPN.
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Buy your own hotspot for Internet access. (May be cheaper to just pay for additional devices)
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You can do a few things to reduce interference if the device broadcasting the signal supports it. Unifi APs support these settings. Most routers with WiFi probably do not support transmit power.
- Adjust transmit power to lower setting
- Higher the frequency, shorter the range (but that frequency may be highly used in the area), so #3 is the better option
- Analyze the frequency usage and picking a frequency that is least used
- If 2.4Ghz band isn’t necessary disable it and only use 5Ghz since it’s a higher frequency it again has a lower range.
- You could also faraday cage your room so the signal won’t leak out, but thats probably more work than its worth.
Ignorance is strength.
Pretend you never saw it, plug your router in, and don’t worry about it.
If they do ask questions, you just made a innocent assumption.
Do a credit card next!
Get a no-annual fee credit card from a major bank or credit union. Keep it open, only use it once a month to keep it open, never close it, and it will help your credit rating long term.
This is honestly quite reasonable from the university. They will be putting in a lot of work to get something set up that’s strong enough for all the students, and messing that up is kind of a dick move.
I’m with you, but how is using your own router messing that up?
On the WAN side, its just a dhcp client, just like any other laptop/xbox etc
It’s not reasonable for a ISP to dictate what CPE can be used on the network, as long as the CPE does not break the network, and routers are fairly well behaved clients by design.
Lending some anecdotal support, the wireless network of the large flagship I went to (in the time spanning the late oughts to the early 10s) operated well enough for the the time while allowing students to plug their own wireless routers into the single Ethernet port they otherwise us to split. And this was back in 802.11g days; before all the channels of 5ghz.
Students had a DC++ service running on the campus MAN, fed it by downloading Linux isos over the onion network… it wasn’t just us nerds doing it either- nearly everyone had a Wi-Fi router.
As time marches on, more rules are made, none are repealed, and student freedom and innovation is stifled. Then those growing up in relative freedom grow grumpy as they watch things enshittify for the people who won’t have known an alternative. I usually apply this thought to privacy philosophy but I see it fits here too.
Rf interference. Similar to having multiple microwaves running near your router, or those old rf based baby monitors.
Congested the 2.4 or 5gz spectrum with noise causing noise and retransmits or outright stopping the wifi from working.
If you have an old radio that does AM find a AM channel that isn’t broadcasting and bring it near your router. You can actually “hear” the noise those things are putting out.
Happily the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz bands are unlicensed and open for public use.
Nothing our OP said indicated they wanted to run WiFi, but even if they did, they could choose a less noisy channel.
Nothing in the click through agreement talked about radios, or bands.
Any body could turn their phone into a cellular hotspot, or have a starlink hotspot, and that is nobody elses business. This is no different.
Letting the network dictate what you can run in your own home is MaBell levels of authoritarianism, but more to the point, its unenforceable ( You can always take a page out of how to hotspot book - Router runs a always on vpn and the lan side only goes out over the VPN, so DPI just seeds the router, and the TTL is as expected)
But this is a dorm. A shared environment with close proximity.
If everyone had their own Wi-Fi transmitting at normal power there would be too much interference that even channel hopping wouldn’t fix it.
Not to say that there can’t be some middle ground but the Wild West attitude isn’t kosher either.
OP already mentioned that the student WiFi is being run entirely by a third party ISP and they have more expensive paid plans for more than one device.
Guaranteed this isn’t about running an optimal network (Though I’m sure if pressed about it they’ll start spouting excuses similar to yours) and all about company greed and constant profit growth.
Probably. But I didn’t want them dealing with being cut off. They can do what they want but since it’s a dorm you can be sure they’ve had these conversations before
ok… so our friendly OP can use their router without turning on the radios and everyone is happy? let’s advise that then
Yeah I definitely don’t want to hurt the network for other folks staying at this (very large) dorm complex/building. Can I reasonably run it at low power (since I only need it in my room) and not have it bother anyone?
Do a frequency scan, choose a 5ghz band, narrowest band you can, that isn’t being used, (don’t use 2.4ghz, 5ghz attenuates the fastest). If your router supports DFS, use a DFS channel
Can I reasonably run it at low power (since I only need it in my room) and not have it bother anyone?
Yes, this is one of those things that as long as you do it properly and don’t interfere with anything nothing will happen
Reduce power to minimal levels, choose a band far away from the WiFi in your area (There are a number of WiFi scanning apps on the app stores) and ensure you plug in the Ethernet from the wall into the WAN port on the router so your router can handle DHCP without interfering with University DHCP networking (though it might make getting through the captive portal tricky)
Depends on whether you can adjust the Tx level but then you run into FCC level stuff that most people avoid (since boosting it is a huge issue with interference)
I’m not advocating for breaking any rules, but many people know that you can hide your wifi routers SSID. even fewer people know how to track these networks.
Most commercial networks systems have the ability to detect rogue access points by analysing the radio spectrum, and hiding the SSID will not avoid detection once traffic starts flowing to it.
And they can triangulate the position of the rogue AP.
Interesting about hiding SSIDs, I never knew why that option existed. I’m here on Erasmus so I don’t want to risk too much by knowingly breaking rules… them triangulating it to my room and starting a legal case or something sounds real scary.
Also, connecting an access point that doesn’t broadcast its SSID has another side effect: all devices configured to connected to it will periodically broadcast a signal to search for that hidden AP instead, so it makes you even easier to track down anywhere else.
That’s assuming they’re actively looking. Hiding your SSID is more to prevent someone from getting suspicious and calling out the ISP.
them triangulating it to my room and starting a legal case or something sounds real scary.
It’s also incredibly unlikely unless you’re actually causing problems
If you really want wireless, do the Ethernet > Desktop/Laptop with hotspot and limit it’s TX power WAY down to minimal levels.
You should be able to use it within your dorm room fine, but will have trouble penetrating beyond the walls and will also make detecting and triangulation quite difficult
So technically I should get away with connecting the router and making an AP right? I can’t do a hotspot from my laptop because the performance is not high enough for streaming (this is why I bought a dedicated router).
In that case I would pickup a cheap USB Ethernet dongle (or 2 if the laptop doesn’t have an onboard one)
Wall > Ethernet 1 and router > Ethernet 2
Configure windows to share Ethernet 1 connection to Ethernet 2 (Builtin functionality since Windows 7 iirc)
Configure the router for minimal power to the radios, use your laptop to handle captive portal and there should be no DHCP interference concerns with the Windows laptop on the middle in this fashion
Boom done, congratulate yourself a lil for a small win over corporate greed lol
It’s a security\legal risk to allow adhoc wireless networks within your environment, pretty much any organization above a certain size has the same restrictions.
You could theoretically allow anyone to access your router directly, which would let them bypass agreeing to the Acceptable Use Policy, for example, shifting liability back to the organization for that users behavior.
