Sodium-ion batteries are gaining attention as a potential alternative to lithium-ion batteries for EVs, mainly due to their cost-effectiveness and abundance of raw materials. Sodium is more readily available and less expensive than lithium, making it an attractive prospect for scaling up EV production.
I don’t know why they said this — they really aren’t a viable alternative for weight-sensitive contexts at all. Their density is only abut 60% that of Li-ion batteries, and that isn’t even getting into solid-state Li batteries which are even more dense. If weight isn’t an issue, like for home or grid backup storage, they’re fine. For cars or bikes, not so much.
Unless we get to the point where we do battery swaps in cars instead of charging. Just pull the fusion core and pop in a charged one. If we can do it for propane tanks we can do it for cars. Run out of “gas”? Tow company can bring you either a full charge or a smaller battery to get you to the next swap point. Most likely this will start with cross country trucks, the owners can have swap points or drive out a battery for a truck that ran out early.
The volumetric energy density is 60% of lithium ion batteries, but the energy density per kg is more like 75% since the batteries are lighter. Assuming that scales to the ev range, that’s probably sufficient for a lot of use cases.
EVs are already too heavy and wear tires out quickly. The upcoming solid state batteries are what will go into future EVs. Samsung is producing them right now and they’re currently set to start going in higher end E vehicles in 2027. At best the sodium ion batts may be good for hybrids.
You’re forgetting that these batteries are going to be cheap because the compounds needed are readily available. This tech is not going to replace every lithium battery out there, but it’s going to give consumers another, more economic choice vs lithium. Plus it’s a safer technology than lithium.
I don’t know why they said this — they really aren’t a viable alternative for weight-sensitive contexts at all. Their density is only abut 60% that of Li-ion batteries, and that isn’t even getting into solid-state Li batteries which are even more dense. If weight isn’t an issue, like for home or grid backup storage, they’re fine. For cars or bikes, not so much.
Your explanation is valid for vehicles that have 100% of their battery be something other than Sodium based, and also have a use case that requires long or intermediate range. That isn’t all use cases. Vehicles that drive a lot, but never cover much distance would still be valid use cases for 100% sodium. 100% Sodium Ion powered EVs started rolling off assembly lines in Dec of 2023. Alternatively 100% Sodium Ion could also be for things like fork lifts or Semi trucks that move storage containers from a cargo ship to a storage location within a mile and repeat this trip dozens of times a day.
Other use cases would be where a car has some sodium batteries and some lithium based ones. The sodium batteries could serve most of the “wear and tear” of short trips, with a second smaller lithium back available to augment overall range which is not used as often.
Other use cases would be where a car has some sodium batteries and some lithium based ones. The sodium batteries could serve most of the “wear and tear” of short trips, with a second smaller lithium back available to augment overall range which is not used as often.
This is a neat idea, but wouldn’t solid-state lithium be far, far better for that purpose?
Are they? Good to hear. However Samsung is starting mass production for EVs and they are targeting initially the most expensive segment. But let’s see one they start producing them.
There is already a Chinese EV that uses sodium ion a sodium ion battery, the JMEV EV3.
It’s a tradeoff of range vs price. The EV3 only has 251 km of range, but thanks in part to its sodium ion battery it costs only $9220 new. Which is a price that will probably drop even more as more sodium ion plants come online and economies of scale kick in.
I don’t know why they said this — they really aren’t a viable alternative for weight-sensitive contexts at all. Their density is only abut 60% that of Li-ion batteries, and that isn’t even getting into solid-state Li batteries which are even more dense. If weight isn’t an issue, like for home or grid backup storage, they’re fine. For cars or bikes, not so much.
Unless we get to the point where we do battery swaps in cars instead of charging. Just pull the fusion core and pop in a charged one. If we can do it for propane tanks we can do it for cars. Run out of “gas”? Tow company can bring you either a full charge or a smaller battery to get you to the next swap point. Most likely this will start with cross country trucks, the owners can have swap points or drive out a battery for a truck that ran out early.
Relevant Tom Scott video
Damn you, I miss Tom’s videos
We all do ;(
He’s definitely earned a break though :')
Absolutely
The volumetric energy density is 60% of lithium ion batteries, but the energy density per kg is more like 75% since the batteries are lighter. Assuming that scales to the ev range, that’s probably sufficient for a lot of use cases.
EVs are already too heavy and wear tires out quickly. The upcoming solid state batteries are what will go into future EVs. Samsung is producing them right now and they’re currently set to start going in higher end E vehicles in 2027. At best the sodium ion batts may be good for hybrids.
You’re forgetting that these batteries are going to be cheap because the compounds needed are readily available. This tech is not going to replace every lithium battery out there, but it’s going to give consumers another, more economic choice vs lithium. Plus it’s a safer technology than lithium.
They’ll be cheap, but weighing more and taking up more space is not that viable of a trade off. Except for hybrid vehicles.
I could see it being useful for semi trucks where volume isn’t as much of an issue, especially if the batteries are hanging under the trailer.
Too much weight. Thus far, electric semi trucks aren’t viable outside of shorter range delivery fleets.
Your explanation is valid for vehicles that have 100% of their battery be something other than Sodium based, and also have a use case that requires long or intermediate range. That isn’t all use cases. Vehicles that drive a lot, but never cover much distance would still be valid use cases for 100% sodium. 100% Sodium Ion powered EVs started rolling off assembly lines in Dec of 2023. Alternatively 100% Sodium Ion could also be for things like fork lifts or Semi trucks that move storage containers from a cargo ship to a storage location within a mile and repeat this trip dozens of times a day.
Other use cases would be where a car has some sodium batteries and some lithium based ones. The sodium batteries could serve most of the “wear and tear” of short trips, with a second smaller lithium back available to augment overall range which is not used as often.
This is a neat idea, but wouldn’t solid-state lithium be far, far better for that purpose?
AFAIK SS lithium have huge price tag, at least for now.
Not really — portable batteries are already on the market and aren’t that much more than conventional Li-ion.
Are they? Good to hear. However Samsung is starting mass production for EVs and they are targeting initially the most expensive segment. But let’s see one they start producing them.
There is already a Chinese EV that uses sodium ion a sodium ion battery, the JMEV EV3.
It’s a tradeoff of range vs price. The EV3 only has 251 km of range, but thanks in part to its sodium ion battery it costs only $9220 new. Which is a price that will probably drop even more as more sodium ion plants come online and economies of scale kick in.
I’d be able to drive that to and from work 15x before charging.