Long post
I’m a nurse working ER. I’m also introverted and like keeping to myself. I also may be on the spectrum (haven’t been diagnosed, but I find social cues and when people are being sincere, joking or lying very difficult to understand. I understand what people say literally. Why would they otherwise speak?)
I also separate my job from my personal life, as my job is not my identity. I don’t care about my coworkers’ life but ask the ones who know more than me about anything job related, to learn, to be a better nurse, to have more opportunities.
Today I had a conversation with 2 managers where I was fired. Not from the hospital due to my union but from the ER. In a nutshell, as they put it: they (whoever they might be) see that I’m motivated and want to learn but they find my way of speaking demanding.
I have absolutely no idea what they mean. They didn’t provide any example. They however provided an example where somebody claims I told a student to put a line. I never did such a thing, but I have the feeling they don’t believe me. The never put anything on writing, or gave me anything to sign. I won’t be signing anything from them.
Then one of the managers started a monologue about he’s been working 30 years there, that communication is important. True, communication here is extremely relevant, but about procedures, patients and who does what, not about why Americans are idiots or how many children you have, not to the point of ignoring alarms, not to the point where I am the only one entering patient’s data in the computer while my coworkers speak about what to cook for dinner. Oftentimes I was the only one noticing how we’re under supplied or that some ECG cables don’t work while the chatty ones did they thing and ignored I was working while they lazy around.
I didn’t get to say all of this because they interrupted. It’s like they believe the talkative ones over me. Why would I want to work for people like that?
After this both sides talked but didn’t listen to what the other side had to say. I felt they weren’t listening to me. Why should I listen to them?
Before I left I told them I’m looking for a unit where I can learn. That’s ALL I need from the workplace to be better. To them this is not good enough.
To me it looks like this: you don’t mingle with us (us being coworkers and management), therefore you are worse than us and deserve to be ignored, but I’m not at a workplace to socialize, but to learn and to earn money. Am I the only person on earth to think like this? Why can’t people keep their opinions to themselves? I leave them alone and only talk about work. If I have nothing to say, I say nothing and learn. I don’t understand why people are so needy for conversation and thin skinned. I didn’t say this out loud because in my past people have bullied me for being me.
I was also accused of not being polite.
I’ll miss working that ER because in the 8 weeks I was there I learned stuff you don’t learn on other units. To me this unit was a good one because I learned new things and people left me alone during downtime to figure out how procedures and machines work, people didn’t complain when I looked the internet for instruction manuals or asked coworkers if we give sodium bicarbonate by metabolic acidosis or alkalosis. I was an motivated coworker, even when people who were supposed to train me sat and did nothing while I was taking samples. I always asked what I didn’t know.
I’ll also miss working with most doctors, because they were always ready to teach me stuff, so I really don’t understand why managers say my way of speaking is demanding.
My managers don’t see or don’t want to see that people treat you better and forgive your mistakes if you give them attention, if you’re likable. I’m not likable. They also don’t see that they say a lot of stupid crap if a coworker prefers to keep to himself. I also find this sad. I feel they think I’m doing this on purpose.
If you’re an extrovert and have read so far: I don’t think you understand how taxing is to care about things that are simply, irrelevant. It’s like my managers expect me to make theatrics and give attention to everyone I work with. I already did this on a previous job and it was ridiculous: fake smiling to a secretary and asking her stupid stuff for 5 minutes straight, smiling like a clown because otherwise she would feel offended. Why is that my job? Sometimes I work with 8 coworkers. Am I supposed to be a sucker with all of them? I find that childish.
I feel they presented an ultimatum: either give us and coworkers attention or be fired. I didn’t bulge because they didn’t listen.
And I still don’t know if this is a good outcome, because I’m not going to change what I am to conform to some extroverted standards of what a good coworkers is supposed to be, because I can’t and I don’t understand them (extroverts).
I don’t know if this puts me on the spectrum and I find it unfair being treated so differently because I like to keep to myself and learn during downtime.
I’ve always have such issues working for other employers. It’s clear this is who I am and trying to change me it’s like expecting a gay to like women.
But if this means I’m alone in the universe, that I’m always the loner people always talk shit about and marginalize, how am I supposed to live my life and work life then?
ETA: I inquired the union about protections for people on the spectrum and I’m waiting for an answer but even if I get a diagnosis I don’t want to expose myself to more bullying by disclosing it to my employer: the hospital I work at is full of gossips.
So what do I do?
Skill to do a job is important. However it seems that many younger people do not believe that interpersonal skills are a necessary skill because they haven’t learned them. Some have much more difficulty learning them or are completely unable to learn them due to neuro differences. They have a choice to either learn interpersonal skills or find work that is isolated where others don’t have to interact with them directly in order to do their jobs. Workplace accommodations can only go so far in helping if other people must interact with them in order to do their jobs. People in the workplace have always had to figure out how to work effectively with others. If they cannot, they have had to find other types of work that don’t require working directly with people. What’s new is expecting others to conform to individual needs instead of individuals conforming to the groups needs. Could you take a socializing class to learn the basics and get out of your current comfort zone? Your coworkers don’t need you to become their best friend but they do need to feel that they are not working with a robot. (I say this as someone who had to figure it out pre-internet. I was labelled Officious & Cold in one of my first employment reviews.)
Extroverts rule the world, we just live in it. If we don’t learn how to act at least a little bit like them they’ll always think we’re strange and unlikeable. The good news is that the more you practice the more natural and less taxing it gets.
Hey so this is a YouTube video that is like 4 hours long but I am seeing a direct similarity here. I’m no doctor so, watch for yourself and see if it resonates.
Dr K is a monk turned psychiatrist who created a platform for helping get gamers mental health treatment. This is an interview with a streamer named Jason Thor Hall. He’s in the middle of a downward spiral during this interview and still to this day.
The tl;dw is that your communication style is (probably), to plenty, an oasis. So many people cannot stand the inane nonsense speak at work. However, you’re rigid in maintaining that oasis. And for those for whom it’s not an oasis, this rigidity is seen as standoffish. Sometimes to the point where people will assume it’s because you think they’re stupid, and will drive them to seek the gap in the ‘armor’ of your communication style.
I think this will resonate with many people who feel the way you feel. Myself included.
https://www.youtube.com/live/7jDPsBh2AyQ
You can skip the first 10-15 mins
I second this. I mostly prefer to keep to myself, but I have started seeing socializing with coworkers as a work duty. It is now no more taxing than doing paperwork. People seem to like me and seek my help, which was not the case previously. It’s also easier to get people to help me.
Are you implying that Thor is autistic like OP? Because he very much hasn’t stated so himself not ever talked about the topic as far as I’m aware.
I say this because Thor is very much a narcissist and equating this two things seems pretty disingenuous. The reason Thor is in a spiral is completely different to what OP is going through.
At least it doesn’t sound like OP used his massive influence to harm a small movement out of childish spite and was then punished by their arrogance, while completely unable or unwilling to understand maybe they are not perfect people and gamers.
For OP: Maybe you’re autistic, maybe just introverted. But like some other poster said, the unfortunate reality is that, in most jobs, it doesn’t matter what you know, but who you know, and most supervisors will pick someone they like over someone that’s a good worker.
We are also only hearing your side of the story which might be painting a different picture to what people on the other side see.
It’s also completely possible it’s actually unrelated to you and it’s them just looking for an excuse to move/fire people while skirting around Union protections.
My only recommendation for OP is, next time make sure you get whatever they say in writing. If it’s not on writing, it didn’t happen, for better or worse.
If you’re looking to build relationships at work, I’d say you need to put in an effort and figure out some way to enjoy those social spaces, it doesn’t have to be the same way everyone else does. But no one is going to enjoy talking to you if you don’t enjoy talking to them.
You don’t have to, of course, but your coworkers don’t have to either. It takes two to dance.
Watch the video before going off on accusations.
That’s a wild takeaway from my post.
Here’s some ways I can relate:
- I would rather not talk unnecessarily at work.
- But I am aware that I occasionally come across as rude, abrasive or disdainful.
I found that people began to forgive my occasional accidental rudeness after I built up habits for myself to proactively communicate to others that I like them.
Now I have a whole set of habits that don’t take me much energy to apply, and make others feel likes by me. It helps tremendously when I later put my foot in my mouth, which I still sometimes do.
I don’t mean to imply that is your situation. It was my situation, at a time when I felt as you do now.
The habits I developed
holy %#@$, you re a good actor. I’m a terrible one and have no patience for that. Kudos to you for being so good faking it I guess? I’m too transparent
Haha. Thanks!
I try to apply Wil Weaton’s law as consistently as I can.
Also I forget who said it but I ask myself “would am asshole say that?” and if so, I try to say something else.
The faking it part is weird, since it applies to everyone I interact with, for different reasons:
- Coworkers - I just need to earn money to buy stuff. Plus, they’re just in the same boat.
- Staff at places I shop - they’re just trying to get by, and don’t need my crap to make their day worse.
- Actual friends - they probably don’t realize how much I appreciate them, so every little bit helps.
I guess my philosophy is we’re all going through some shit, so I hope I’m making it a little easier where I can.
I thank people for doing the bare minimum as demanded by their job.
I do as well, because doing the bare minimum is still doing their job!
Yup. And the price for doing more is: more work. And then they fire people, and then you have to do even more work.
Yeah, although sometimes it is beneficial to do extra work if they promote from within. Fairly rare in my experience, but when they do it is worth it as the farther up the chain the less anyone pays attention to how busy you look as long as the work gets done!
40/60 rule here.
HOW you communicate an issue is more important than what you say. You can be 100% right and if you are abrasive and difficult to deal with, then you won’t get your point across. It’s not about extroversion versus introversion. It’s about how you communicate.
We are dumb primates after all.
40/60 rule here.
I’m sorry but I’m gonna have to ask what you mean: 40% taking 60% giving?, 40% concentrating on my job 60% talking about inane stuff to placate them?
You’ve never heard of 40/60?
40% is the words that are said. 60% is body language and tone.
I am really this disconnected. thanks
The people OP are talking about see direct communication and clarity as abrasive. It is absolutely extroversion vs introversion.
I have worked with plenty of people who all react differently to the same interactions and have the opposite takeaways on whether someone was polite or abrasive. Like one guy I worked with always gave clear answers to things that were asked clearly, but when someone was indirect and wanted the person to infer something any follow up questions (asked directly and without any real emotion) was seen as them refusing to ‘just get it’. That is what these managers sound like. Extroverts who don’t understand that introverts aren’t asshokes for not playing the small talk routine and pretending to be happy about everything.
true, I like getting to the point so nobody wastes energy, but people believe what they want to believe and are really fast making assumptions.
One person’s “getting to the point” is another person’s “stripping away context”, unfortunately. Sometimes we just have to suffer through a long anecdote because the speaker can’t separate the relevant and irrelevant parts themself. They’re not trying to waste our time, they just organize information differently.
I think you are reading the situation accurately and are probably on the spectrum. I also find small talk to be pointless the vast, vast majority of the time and that a lot of people need it to actually see others as people.
Being a blank slate results in people putting their assumptions on you. If you don’t do small talk, or put on a face of enjoyment occasionally, a significant number of people will assume you hate them or are upset about something. Many people find not sharing something to be hiding something, because they were taught by society to not trust people who aren’t open, which isn’t really reliable but that is what it is.
So while I think you are absolutely right, you can either stick to your current approach or fake it like I do. It took a good solid decade of practice to get reasonably good at smalltalk, and I have to fake it most of the time, but occasionally and interesting tidbit comes out and I use those to keep myself going. It also helped with being more expressive with the people I was happy to see, and whike there is a chance that someone will assume that means playing favorites it is still better than when I was extremely formal and kept entirely to myself.
Managers tend to be extroverts because extroverts like working with multiple people. So figuring out how to navigate social settings like work in a way that kind of fits in will absolutely improve your experience in the social setting, like any other work related skill. Some of us just have to work at it harder than others if we want to be socially successful.
Side note: A lot of people are extremely indirect in their communication for a variety of reasons, from trauma to just really wanting to see if the other person can infer what they are implying. This is extremely frustrating when one needs a clear answer, and people that can’t be clear and direct when the situation requires it are the absolute worst.
Can I ask something that sounds off-topic?
Do you have hobbies outside of work? In my field there are people who really don’t. They pour all of their being into their identity of the field, and when it comes time to retire or they medically can’t work it destroys them. And usually the reason they medically can’t work is the nature of the work itself. Many of the same occupational stressors that you yourself would face as an emergency nurse.
I only ask because it sounds like the only discussions you willingly engage in are related to patient care/nursing. Caring for others without nurturing yourself is not sustainable.
I’m sorry to hear you were removed from ER. ICU is a really valuable learning space, since the most critical patients have so many body systems involved. If you wanted to grow, you can also then branch into related specialties like neuro ICU or cicu etc. I would highly, highly recommend finding something that fills your cup outside of work first, though. Then it also gives you something to talk about that you don’t find boring or tedious :)
The reason your co-workers in the Emergency Department babble inane stuff to each other is it is a coping mechanism for all the brutal self destructive shit they see people do to themselves and to each other.
I’ve always have such issues working for other employers.
OP this is a key statement…
It’s like they believe the talkative ones over me. Why would I want to work for people like that?
OP you have had this same problem at other workplaces. You don’t feel a need to change your behavior.
Not wanting to chit chat at work is completely reasonable in some professions, IT, research, laboratory work and so on. ED Nursing is not one of those professions. Nursing is all about executing a care plan as part of a team. Your managers are not believing your co-workers over you, your managers are confirming what you already know about yourself.
If you do have a disability/special needs you need to get that documented and inform your organization so the organization can create a reasonable accommodation.
I think you need to some self evaluation and see if there is a speciality of nursing that has limited contact with people.
I know that there are doctors who spend their days doing nothing but chart reviews. Is that something a nurse can do.
How does a socially inept, introverted person survive at work?
They find a profession that a socially inept introverted person can do.
If you do have a disability/special needs you need to get that documented
I wouldn’t be in too much of a hurry with that if you live in the US.
I wouldn’t be in too much of a hurry with that if you live in the US.
would you elaborate?
I’m not sure it’s the best time for an autism diagnosis when there’s someone in the White House thinking that people like us are broken somehow. I guess I was alluding to earlier when there was talk about RFK making this autism registry. I don’t want to be on any sort of list.
good post.
Seems like maybe that’s one of those jobs where you have to be buds with people to get along and make it look like youre part of the team. I’d imagine police or fireman or military work is a lot like that (guessing).
I’ve never worked those jobs but I can say for dang sure the second you start to buddy up with managers and such and get invited to bars with them, you make more money and do less work. Its bullshit and I left that job because the introverts doing real work were under rewarded while people who talked loud a didn’t do shit got promotions.
Its bullshit and I left that job because the introverts doing real work were under rewarded while people who talked loud a didn’t do shit got promotions.
true and a short story:
in one of the units I worked at I found a nurse similar to me: socially awkward and introverted. The best worker of that unit. She would clock in, get report, get to work. Always. She was the only one at that unit working like that consequently, daily, to the point of skipping pauses and doing overtime for free.
To this day I believe this person, so similar to me, maybe even more introverted than me did that because she was also bullied at other units for being herself and the only way she found of defending herself and not being bullied was working according to standard, those completely unrealistic standards managements prints but everyone disregards because life happens at a hospital.
It’s a perfect defense mechanism for an introvert: if I work nobody can talk to me therefore I won’t be bullied.
Except that this work rhythm is completely unsustainable and I won’t do it.
To add insult to injury, this coworker, even though she is the most hardworking person at that unit and extremely organized will never be promoted because she, like me, doesn’t know to play the social game extroverts excel at.
story’s over
I might come across as abrasive myself in this comment, you are free to completely discard anything I write.
You were fired after only 8 weeks from a position as ER nurse. Aren’t ER nurses quite difficult to find? 8 weeks is a pretty short time. So the managers considered, after such a short time, that it was better to loose you than to keep you. That having you in their team was a negative. And they didn’t warn you, so they thought that either you would not heed the warning or that your behavior was too serious a liability for them that they would skip the warning all together.
Considering this, I would encourage you to find their point of view on the matter. Even if it seems to you that everything was good, did you overlook communication? Did you act as a lone wolf in a team? Did you overlook to show off your own contributions? Each one could have significant ramifications.
The examples you give are quite extreme, did you communicate about them correctly or could you communication look like pointing fingers? Did you follow up on them in the way that is usually used in the team? Did you make an enemy of a key player?
I know work politics can be exhausting. In this direction, I don’t have advice other than learning from every experience.
I spent a long time typing up something similar to this, but you’ve done a much better job that I would have.
I didn’t find you abrasive. Abrasive would be to start insulting, writing all caps, insinuating with no facts, ranting… like trump
did you overlook communication? Did you act as a lone wolf in a team? Did you overlook to show off your own contributions?
so it’s not enough doing my job but I actually have to show off like a… show off what I actually do? this is childish (don’t want to start an argument with you, just pointing out this is childish…)
acting as a lone wolf: no more than my coworkers: some coworkers like working all alone, other are more collaborative. The ones that work alone, I leave them alone.
The examples you give are quite extreme, did you communicate about them correctly or could you communication look like pointing fingers? Did you follow up on them in the way that is usually used in the team? Did you make an enemy of a key player?
that I don’t know. I just want a quiet life.
Exposure therapy. I worked as a server for years specifically to build the social skills I lacked. People want to chit-chat about mundane nonsense, that’s the norm. We’re the unusual ones for not being interested. It’s trite, pointless, and boring. But most people like it, and don’t like people who can’t at least fake it.
Being able to make small talk is socially as important as basic hygiene. No one wants to associate with someone who looks and smells like they crawled out of a storm drain, and no one wants to associate with someone who ignores or belittles their attempts at small talk.
Purely socially, I say let the boring people filter themselves out of your life. Professionally, you need to have rapport with your coworkers, you are part of a team. If you’re going to work in a field with an implicit social element, you are going to have to learn to navigate that social element. Otherwise you’re going to continue to have these conflicts.
That means finding at least a subset of typical conversational topics to engage with in a friendly way. That means masking with some degree of warmth and compassion. That means reframing the issue from everyone else being banal, to you being unable to integrate with banal people. That’s most people.
It’ll be weird, and you’ll feel fake or inefficient, but unless you want to shift careers to one with minimal interaction with other people, it’s a skill you are going to need to cultivate if you want any kind of success or progression. That’s just the way it is. Adapt or perish.
The problem here isn’t just your introversion. You see smiling at the receptionist for five minutes a day as an unacceptable working condition; but you need to understand that part of keeping a job you like includes managing your coworkers. Maybe for you that really is unacceptable, but other introverts, myself included, have accepted it as the cost of doing business.
I have myself occasionally had coworkers or other call me rude or condescending, and I’ve never really found a way out from under that when it’s happened. What works better is setting a good first impression, working extra hard the first few weeks to give off an impression of humility, helpfulness, cheerfulness, and kindness. Then later if you do have a bad day, or need to communicate something urgently, or need to correct someone’s mistake, they’ll see that as the exception rather than just “oh that’s how she is”.
You see smiling at the receptionist for five minutes a day as an unacceptable working condition; but you need to understand that part of keeping a job you like includes managing your coworkers.
it’s not only smiling, it’s giving attention to somebody I dislike that tires me.
I have no problem with work friendship that grow naturally, but they have to grow… naturally. Placing me in a environment with an instruction like ‘be friends with these people’ doesn’t work for me.
You write managing your coworkers, even if I’m a coworker myself and not a manager. Ain’t that a manager’s job?
about your second paragraph: you’re such a good actor. I’m too transparent.
I have myself occasionally had coworkers or other call me rude or condescending, and I’ve never really found a way out from under that when it’s happened.
and people who hear them complain are not mature enough to ask for the other side before jumping to conclusions, you mean…
I have no problem with work friendship that grow naturally, but they have to grow… naturally. Placing me in a environment with an instruction like ‘be friends with these people’ doesn’t work for me
It doesn’t have to be a full blown friendship, you just have to be able to relate with people in the way that co workers do. There is a massive difference between politely humoring someone for 5 minutes and being an actual friend who would hang out outside of work, help them move, go over for dinner at their house etc, and I highly doubt anyone is asking you to do those things.
Medicine is a team activity. Being capable of relating to and being polite with coworkers and patients is part of this.
Try therapy or find a different line of work.
From another nurse? Go work night shift rads. Everywhere I’ve worked that nurse works alone or with maybe a transport tech or two. What was your specialty before this? You could always come do Psych with the rest of us freaks but that might not solve the communication issue.
Tbh the bigger issue sounds like you’ve just got a massive stick up your ass. You condescension towards everyday human beings and their interests is palpable in your written communication; I can’t imagine how blatantly it must come across in person. If you can’t learn to see the beauty in everyday human beings that’s fine but ffs why did you pick a human services field then???
how optimistic of you:
this only works when the person you share the unit with is not somebody who yells everything that happens through his mind.
Psych? Last time I worked there a gay guy 7 feet tall started blatantly hitting on me. no thanks.
And I chose this job out of desperation. Won’t delve into this now.
Could’ve picked a different trade with similar amount of schooling like welding.
does it pay the same? really curious now.
maybe I’m falling for the sunk costs fallacy?
It used to be anyway, looks like it’s less now. That said, a bunch of stuff on this list is radiology stuff which you could pretty easily pivot to with a nursing degree anyway.
The best advice I learned from my manager was 2 parts.
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Try and understand their point of view, you may need to adjust your actions if their point of view is seeing you as not helpful/annoying (looking back i was being very obnoxious, sending too many emails)
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Have a work self and a non work self. I was very shy and that was not looked highly on at my job so I tried my best little by little to open up more
These really helped me in my career.
is this advice applicable to non managers?
About your second paragraph: Don’t you find it tiring having 2 personalities?
Not the person you’re replying to but:
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Yes, managing your relationship with your coworkers will be helpful at all stages of your career. You’re not managing them, you’re managing your relationship with them. It helps you listen, ask simple questions about who they are and listen. You don’t have to care, you only have to share a little. You’re not building a friendship unless you want to. You’re cultivating a positive relationship so that they know they can depend on you when they need it.
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Yes, exhausting. It’s called masking and everybody whether they are neuro divergent or not does it. Some people find it trivial, some find it nearly impossible. My wife can tell the difference between my work voice and my regular voice because at work I’m masking. I’ve been working on bringing the two closer together because I’ve found it is beneficial to my career to be more myself.
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I simply withdraw into my lab and work there.
